Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[syn]

To be fair, the EA justified it through bus ridership rather than walkins. Bus ridership would be perfectly happy and well served by higher capacity service on Bathurst, Don Mills, or possibly elsewhere.

I'm in favour of the Yonge extension (that's about the only subterranean suburban extension I'm in favour of) but largely because I expect an actual buildout with far more density than is shown in the EA. Yonge is one of the few streets where "if you build it they will come" has proven true.

Has it?

Yonge-Sheppard was built 44 years ago and I'd say there's still plenty of untapped development potential in the area.

Richmond Hill Centre seems like it has many decades building to go before it's a subway calibre corridor - even with a giant condo farm in the area.

Fortunately this is a direct Yonge extension and there are other municipalities footing the bill.

 

[nfitz]

Has it?

Yonge-Sheppard was built 44 years ago and I'd say there's still plenty of untapped development potential in the area.

There's untapped potential downtown too - look at Queen and Church, just steps from Queen station.

There can be both "build it they will come has proven true" and "untapped potential"! Just remember what Yonge street north of Sheppard looked like only 35 years ago, and look at it today. I lived near Empress just west of Yonge back in 1990, and although the redevelopment at that time was quite amazing - walking down Yonge Street is almost unrecognizable now, compared to when I used to live there.

Unlike the Danforth, where quite frankly, little has changed in the same amount of time - and there's much more untapped potential.

 

[Streety McCarface]

The DRL long is critical - no question it needs to be done before this project.

No one is denying that RLN is a critical piece of infrastructure that needs to be built, preferably before the YNSE. What we don't like is your full anti-Subway rhetoric that states that subways are only justified in super dense areas like downtown, because as we know, this isn't entirely true.

Has it?

Yonge-Sheppard was built 44 years ago and I'd say there's still plenty of untapped development potential in the area.

Richmond Hill Centre seems like it has many decades building to go before it's a subway calibre corridor - even with a giant condo farm in the area.

Fortunately this is a direct Yonge extension and there are other municipalities footing the bill.

Again, density isn't everything, surface transit usage is. Sheppard-Yonge may have a lot of untapped land around it, but the station sees at least 30K PPD generated by walk-in ridership alone. I can't think of any other stations outside of downtown and North York Centre Station that have anything this high (Eglinton and Finch are transit terminals for surface transit).

There's untapped potential downtown too - look at Queen and Church, just steps from Queen station.

There can be both "build it they will come has proven true" and "untapped potential"! Just remember what Yonge street north of Sheppard looked like only 35 years ago, and look at it today. I lived near Empress just west of Yonge back in 1990, and although the redevelopment at that time was quite amazing - walking down Yonge Street is almost unrecognizable now, compared to when I used to live there.

Unlike the Danforth, where quite frankly, little has changed in the same amount of time - and there's much more untapped potential.

Even then, the Bloor Danforth Line has one of the highest levels of subway line ridership in all of North America.

 

[syn]

No one is denying that RLN is a critical piece of infrastructure that needs to be built, preferably before the YNSE. What we don't like is your full anti-Subway rhetoric that states that subways are only justified in super dense areas like downtown, because as we know, this isn't entirely true.

Nonsense.

I'm pro building subways where they're needed, not wanted.

Decades of suburban subway expansion has proven to be a mistake when actual subway needs have been ignored.

If we had unlimited funds, I'd say build subways everywhere. SSE? Great. YNSE? Awesome!

Unfortunately, we live in a reality where funds are limited.

Old Toronto is still, by quite a margin, seeing the most development. That is where the need for subway infrastructure is currently greatest. Address key needs, then build the rest later - if it makes sense.

As I wrote earlier, it's fortunate the bill is largely being footed by other municipalities and unlike the SSE the path is a sensible one.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

The thing is, YNSE makes sense as a subway extension.

It is just that we are wasting our time and money with Scarborough subways instead of building both the Relief Line and YNSE concurrently, which is what we should be doing as a region.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The thing is, YNSE makes sense as a subway extension.

It is just that we are wasting our time and money with Scarborough subways instead of building both the Relief Line and YNSE concurrently, which is what we should be doing as a region.

The only (and real) reason why we are even discussing Scarborough is because we canceled the Scarborough extentions post 2011 and then extended the subway to Vaughan. I agree with you however.

 

[Rainforest]

The thing is, YNSE makes sense as a subway extension.

It is just that we are wasting our time and money with Scarborough subways instead of building both the Relief Line and YNSE concurrently, which is what we should be doing as a region.

Scarborough Sheppard extension (which BTW isn't on the books right now) may be qualified as wasting time and money, but not Scarborough BD extension.

SRT has to be replaced soon, the replacement is going to cost quite a bit anyway, we better do it right and replace with subway.

 

[micheal_can]

Scarborough Sheppard extension (which BTW isn't on the books right now) may be qualified as wasting time and money, but not Scarborough BD extension.

SRT has to be replaced soon, the replacement is going to cost quite a bit anyway, we better do it right and replace with subway.

Extending the Sheppard line to the STC makes sense. It would finally go somewhere. It should also be extended to Downsview Park.

A 3 stop extension of the B-D line is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[Rainforest]

Extending the Sheppard line to the STC makes sense. It would finally go somewhere. It should also be extended to Downsview Park.

A 3 stop extension of the B-D line is the only thing that makes sense.

I agree that a 3 stop extension of the B-D line is better than a one-stop extension, but would take a one-stop extension just to get some closure.

As of the Sheppard line extension, it would make sense eventually but it is not an immediate necessity. We can improve the express bus service west of Yonge and east of Don Mills, the capacity will be sufficient for a long time, while we are focusing on building SSE / Relief Line / Yonge North.

 

[Northern Light]

The DRL long is critical - no question it needs to be done before this project.

The DRL must reach Eglinton to divert enough passengers for their to be any capacity on Line 1 to support expansion.

Once this is in place, in theory, you could extend Line 1 to Steeles, there are even advantages in terms of splitting the turnback operations to 1/2 Finch, 1/2 Steeles long contemplated by Steve Munro.

But I would go no further than that w/o the RL having reached Sheppard.

 

[drum118]

The DRL must reach Eglinton to divert enough passengers for their to be any capacity on Line 1 to support expansion.

Once this is in place, in theory, you could extend Line 1 to Steeles, there are even advantages in terms of splitting the turnback operations to 1/2 Finch, 1/2 Steeles long contemplated by Steve Munro.

But I would go no further than that w/o the RL having reached Sheppard.

You are better off building the Yonge Line to Steeles today than wait until the DRL gets to Eglinton.

The extension should had happen when that extension was built in the first place, since the ridership was there then.

By building the extension today, it does a number of things that will benefit everyone.

With the Steeles station in place, both TTC and YRT can remove buses that get caught up in traffic from Steeles to Finch and still offer the same quality of service. Riders save travel time both way. Traffic will have no buses to deal with and allow the plan to move forward to reduce the number of lanes and add bike lanes.

Since there is no real plan in place for adding parking spaces at Steeles, the 905 riders will still have to drive to Finch.

I have never had an issue of building the extension to Steeles, but do to RH.

 

[skylyte]

On one of the maps for the extension, it shows a dotted line going further north past Richmond Hill station. Does that imply that Hillcrest Mall will the last stop or potentially Aurora?

 

[W. K. Lis]

You are better off building the Yonge Line to Steeles today than wait until the DRL gets to Eglinton.

The extension should had happen when that extension was built in the first place, since the ridership was there then.

By building the extension today, it does a number of things that will benefit everyone.

With the Steeles station in place, both TTC and YRT can remove buses that get caught up in traffic from Steeles to Finch and still offer the same quality of service. Riders save travel time both way. Traffic will have no buses to deal with and allow the plan to move forward to reduce the number of lanes and add bike lanes.

Since there is no real plan in place for adding parking spaces at Steeles, the 905 riders will still have to drive to Finch.

I have never had an issue of building the extension to Steeles, but do to RH.

...and swap the bus lanes for wider sidewalks.

 

[drum118]

...and swap the bus lanes for wider sidewalks.

That was the idea that I thought with putting in the bike lanes. Haft the lane would be used for both and a good thing, other than the car folks crying the blue at a lost of a lane.

 

[Rainforest]

On one hand I like the idea of extending the Yonge line just to Steeles in the interim. There are roughly twice as many buses running between Steeles and Finch than north of Steeles. Shortening those bus routes would both improve the bus operations and de-congest Yonge.

On the other hand, there is a concern that doing the Yonge extension in 2 phases will increase the total cost, as the launch / extraction operation will have to be performed twice.