Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[gweed123]

This should make use of the existing tunneling equipment being used currently for Spadina, to build the tunnel between Finch and Steeles. So in the end it's just a tunnel, and then when funding becomes available they just have to build the stations?

That's a short way to tunnel for all the headache of trying to load a TBM in though. The launch and retrieval shafts alone would probably be like 1/3 of the distance between Finch and Steeles.

And I can see why they wouldn't want to build the station. No sense in relocating all of the 'terminus' infrastructure (large bus loops, etc) when the terminus would only be temporary. It's already at Finch, leave it there.

 

[BMO]

OH i didn't realize the TBM's launch and retrieval shafts were so long, I was under the impressiont hey were maybe 50m in length. I just figured tunneling underneath without cut/cover would mitigate the impact of construction on Yonge st proper, especially if none of the stations are being built, so i guess they would just need a launch site and another site where the TBM would come out (plenty of space around Yonge/Steeles to do this if need be)

I don't understand what you mean when you say "No sense in relocating all of the 'terminus' infrastructure (large bus loops, etc) when the terminus would only be temporary."

 

[gweed123]

OH i didn't realize the TBM's launch and retrieval shafts were so long, I was under the impressiont hey were maybe 50m in length. I just figured tunneling underneath without cut/cover would mitigate the impact of construction on Yonge st proper, especially if none of the stations are being built, so i guess they would just need a launch site and another site where the TBM would come out (plenty of space around Yonge/Steeles to do this if need be)

They may very well be relatively short, but still, a 50m wide hole in the middle of Yonge St (or even directly adjacent to it), would cause a pretty large amount of disruption, let alone 2 of these holes within the same concession.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "No sense in relocating all of the 'terminus' infrastructure (large bus loops, etc) when the terminus would only be temporary."

Well terminus stations require more associated infrastructure when it comes to bus bays, parking, etc. Think of all the terminus stations in Toronto, they're pretty large, and they all have a lot of bus bays. It makes sense to relocate all of these bus bays when there's no short-term plan for expansion (Ex: Kipling, Kennedy), but when there's a subway extension plan on the docket for within the next 15 years, recreating the infrastucture that's at Finch Stn 2km further north doesn't really make sense.

There's no sense in VIVA building an entirely new terminal at Steeles Station and abandoning the one at Finch, when the one at Steeles is going to also see a significant drop in use once the subway gets extended further north. The other option is we'd get a Kipling and Islington kind of deal, where the TTC moves a lot of their routes to Steeles, but VIVA decides to remain at Finch (much like MT did at Islington). MT did this because their bus bays were already at Islington, and they didn't want to spend millions of dollars to build a new facility 1 station down the line that would have done pretty much the exact same thing.

 

[BMO]

Well terminus stations require more associated infrastructure when it comes to bus bays, parking, etc. Think of all the terminus stations in Toronto, they're pretty large, and they all have a lot of bus bays. It makes sense to relocate all of these bus bays when there's no short-term plan for expansion (Ex: Kipling, Kennedy), but when there's a subway extension plan on the docket for within the next 15 years, recreating the infrastucture that's at Finch Stn 2km further north doesn't really make sense.

There's no sense in VIVA building an entirely new terminal at Steeles Station and abandoning the one at Finch, when the one at Steeles is going to also see a significant drop in use once the subway gets extended further north. The other option is we'd get a Kipling and Islington kind of deal, where the TTC moves a lot of their routes to Steeles, but VIVA decides to remain at Finch (much like MT did at Islington). MT did this because their bus bays were already at Islington, and they didn't want to spend millions of dollars to build a new facility 1 station down the line that would have done pretty much the exact same thing.

ok gotcha,

Yea no point building the bus bays etc if the trains won't be running down there.

 

[BoAd]

I don't see a point in defending the non-TTC bus terminal at Finch. Given an extension, Finch would no longer be needed to serve the Cummer, Drewry, and both Steeles busses, giving critical room to other, non-TTC bus lines. Regardless, YRT (including VIVA) wouldn't need to use it anymore.

Meanwhile, GO should really relocate all their services to Yorkdale and Wilson Stations. Yorkdale is already a functional terminal, and Wilson has a bus terminal that isn't in use. Also, both are far closer to the 401, which Finch doesn't.

 

[BMO]

ideally a yonge subway to Highway 7 would reduce the need for buses on Yonge so much that there would virtually be zero buses on yonge street between finch and highway 7, except for the 97, and a few of the local YRT lines that would be going from centre st, or John st to either Clark/ royal orchard station.

 

[nfitz]

Looking at the RFQ call - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/aboutus/tenders/RQQ-2011-ISP-010.aspx I don't think this has anything to do with the planned TTC tunnelling on Yonge. I assumed this was a TTC tender, but now I've found it, I've realized it is from Metrolinx.

I'm not sure why there is any discussion on using existing TBMs on the pre-build of the Yonge extension. The plan (according to Steve Munro) is to build 800 metres north of the existing through Cummer station. According to the EA this will all be cut-and-cover.

 

[BMO]

ok, I thought from the description it seemed like it had to do with the whole section between fincha nd steeles.

thanks for clearing it up.

 

[GTS]

I read the article in the today's Toronto Star titled "Richmond Hill plans “Union Station North”". I hope these plans come true- that area could become a real hub if these plans do get funding. The area is already a city bus hub- it has good nearby access to highway 407 and possible feeder commuter buses and most importantly their is the existing Langstaff GO station. Not only for developing the Richmond Hill Centre as a destination the Yonge Line might help spur development on Yonge between Finch Station and Steeles. This extension would remove many, not all I hope, buses from Yonge north of Finch Station- some TTC buses, YRT buses, Viva buses and maybe even some other buses that use the existing Finch Station as well. One other reason for this extension is that it might motivate the TTC to install Automatic Train Control sooner so that this busy line can increase its capacity significantly.

 

[Solid Snake]

I read the article in the today's Toronto Star titled "Richmond Hill plans “Union Station North”". I hope these plans come true- that area could become a real hub if these plans do get funding. The area is already a city bus hub- it has good nearby access to highway 407 and possible feeder commuter buses and most importantly their is the existing Langstaff GO station. Not only for developing the Richmond Hill Centre as a destination the Yonge Line might help spur development on Yonge between Finch Station and Steeles. This extension would remove many, not all I hope, buses from Yonge north of Finch Station- some TTC buses, YRT buses, Viva buses and maybe even some other buses that use the existing Finch Station as well. One other reason for this extension is that it might motivate the TTC to install Automatic Train Control sooner so that this busy line can increase its capacity significantly.

I disagree with a line north of Steeles. The amount of money it would cost to go to Richmond Hill should be invested in the DRL...as of yesterday

 

[gweed123]

I disagree with a line north of Steeles. The amount of money it would cost to go to Richmond Hill should be invested in the DRL...as of yesterday

This is exactly why Toronto City Council put forward a motion that the DRL be built in-tandum with the Yonge extension. They did this because:

a) The Yonge extension will overwhelm the Yonge line south of around Eglinton
b) It's the best way to secure funding for the DRL (ie to make it a condition of a suburban subway extension)

If the DRL is under construction at the same time as the Yonge extension is, I have no quams with the Yonge extension whatsoever. I think it's a worthwhile project, and establishing a transit hub at Richmond Hill Centre is a great idea. It's not very often where you'll have a subway, a GO train line, and 3 BRT routes connecting all at the same place.

In order for the GTA to have a truly effective transit system, I think 3 of these hubs need to be set up: STC in the East, Square One in the west, and Richmond Hill Centre in the North (Vaughan Centre to the northwest to a certain extent, but it won't have as much of a regional implication). If all of the suburban rapid transit routes (which seem to all be going with BRT), pass through or terminate at one of these 3 points, and there's one or more truly rapid transit line (either grade-separated LRT or subway) that connects to there as well, it will vastly improve the connectivity of the entire region.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Do the access ramps for the 407 transitway really need to be tunnelled?

 

[BMO]

I'm sure they have to be tunneled due to additional costs and slopes that would be required for a bridge over the highway/ over jane.

They are building the transitway to allow for future LRT or hgiher order rail transit to run on it in the future. Something that a steep slope (which a bus could handle) would prove hard to handle for a rail system.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

A source in the city (Toronto) tells me that detailed engineering drawings for this extension are being produced. Not sure what that means, but it could indicate that this project may be ready to go forward very quickly once funding is announced.

 

[jaycola]

For transit riders who find themselves at the Richmond Hill Hub, would they automatically decide to take the subway or would many, who are traveling down to the CBD take the go instead? If this transit hub works efficiently, could it not actually take some pressure off of the Yonge line?
Many people who now travel to Finch Station likely do so because it is appears most convenient for them even though the Go train could be faster. This transit hub could be the impetus for this change in mindset.

I think that York region should pony up the money for the extension. 50% for the section from Finch to Steeles and 100% for the portion north of Steeles.

In the end, the provincial goal of creating nodes of intensification is best served by the creation of these transit hubs. The effect in reducing auto use, encouraging denser development and protecting valuable greenspace will be better served by expanding the transit network. The benefit to transit users in the city will be negligible if not negative but the overall benefit will be in the positive.