unimaginative2
Senior Member
No Jane Jacobs fan who has ever read any of her books would want a single-use, monolithic superblock development built in one style at one time.
Junglab
New Member
You've got a point there. However, eyes on the street are eyes on the street, and will no doubt help move this whole area from the wasteland it currently is to a more vibrant community. This residential building may be a superblock, but it certainly is not the superblock of JJ's day and age - the public is afforded access to the water through the site, and the buildings are designed to be permeable and transparent.
This is not a monolithic commercial building crouching menacingly over quiant victorian rowhouses and devouring a pre-existing community - it is a high quality residential structure with publically accessible parkland and (likely) ground-floor retail sitting in the very heart of Toronto's post-industrial waterfront wasteland. No communities were harmed in the making of this building. And, despite the histrionics about the lack of a cultural landmark - there's plenty of time to work this out elsewhere. Heck, we can't even get the roundhouse sorted out, never mind Humanitas, or whatever it's called these days (which, I might add, has been recently moved to another site). With no obvious cultural use for this site on the horizon, I can easily see it sitting vacant for many a long year to come, were such a use mandated here.
This is not a monolithic commercial building crouching menacingly over quiant victorian rowhouses and devouring a pre-existing community - it is a high quality residential structure with publically accessible parkland and (likely) ground-floor retail sitting in the very heart of Toronto's post-industrial waterfront wasteland. No communities were harmed in the making of this building. And, despite the histrionics about the lack of a cultural landmark - there's plenty of time to work this out elsewhere. Heck, we can't even get the roundhouse sorted out, never mind Humanitas, or whatever it's called these days (which, I might add, has been recently moved to another site). With no obvious cultural use for this site on the horizon, I can easily see it sitting vacant for many a long year to come, were such a use mandated here.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Superblocks of Jane Jacobs' time made lots of pretense of public space. Lots of big open plazas, landscaped areas, etc.
Which is exactly what people would have said about Harbour Square a quarter century ago, and nobody outside this forum would consider that project to be a success.
Besides, the whole point is that it won't have ground-floor retail beyond about one outlet along Queens Quay. The information available indicates that the entire ground-floor waterfront section will be occupied by private duplex condominiums with private, fenced-in patios. Not exactly open and inviting public space, no matter what covenants they have with the city for accessibility. Do you really think that people lying on the grass next to those multi-million dollar duplexes will last very long?
Which is exactly what people would have said about Harbour Square a quarter century ago, and nobody outside this forum would consider that project to be a success.
Besides, the whole point is that it won't have ground-floor retail beyond about one outlet along Queens Quay. The information available indicates that the entire ground-floor waterfront section will be occupied by private duplex condominiums with private, fenced-in patios. Not exactly open and inviting public space, no matter what covenants they have with the city for accessibility. Do you really think that people lying on the grass next to those multi-million dollar duplexes will last very long?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
People outside this forum while away many a pleasant hour sitting on the grass under the trees behind Harbour Square chatting to friends, or strolling the boardwalk there, or sitting having their lunch, or sitting on the benches reading, or having a snooze, so there's no reason to suppose that the 30% of land that the public will have access to at Pier 27 will be any the less well used - particularly given the attitude expressed by Clewes in the interview posted here earlier and the higher expectations that we have for waterfront sites now.
Harbourfront was originally ( early 1970's ) intended to run from York Quay to Bathurst. While its cultural heart will remain there, there is every indication that with the Corus office building and condo developments such as Pier 27 bringing hundreds of residents and workers to this part of town the harbour will continue to evolve in positive ways.
Harbourfront was originally ( early 1970's ) intended to run from York Quay to Bathurst. While its cultural heart will remain there, there is every indication that with the Corus office building and condo developments such as Pier 27 bringing hundreds of residents and workers to this part of town the harbour will continue to evolve in positive ways.
maestro
Senior Member
http://www.toronto.ca/planning/south_agenda1.pdf
some new info under 25 Queens Quay W
-two 14 storey towers
-one 46.5m the other 50.5m in height
-no retail whatsoever
-59 affordably priced units
some new info under 25 Queens Quay W
-two 14 storey towers
-one 46.5m the other 50.5m in height
-no retail whatsoever
-59 affordably priced units
That's Queens Quay E.
A bit more info:
E. Street Related Retail Uses - Frontage
15. Section 3(17), By Law 1996-0483
Along Queens Quay East or the Yonge Street Slip Frontage, street related retail and service uses are required for a minimum of 50% of each building face along such frontage.
A bit more info:
E. Street Related Retail Uses - Frontage
15. Section 3(17), By Law 1996-0483
Along Queens Quay East or the Yonge Street Slip Frontage, street related retail and service uses are required for a minimum of 50% of each building face along such frontage.
brettrobinson
New Member
Good news as this project would be horrible without any retail component.
maestro
Senior Member
^the bad news ... the OMB is much more likely to amend the 1996 Bylaw to allow for no retail than to send them back to the drawing board
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
It won't kill people to keep their money in their pockets for a couple of blocks, surely?
MisterF
Senior Member
^You seem to be intentionally missing the point...
Why do you say that? It's a variance application, not a rezoning application. The intent of the by-law seems pretty clear: to have retail at that location on a retail street. Allowing two residential buildings with no retail at all doesn't meet that intent. Applying for a variance to change the use is a long shot anyway - that would need a rezoning.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
And we wouldn't want to deprive people of the desperately needed Second Cup, Rabba and tanning salon that will go in there.
maestro
Senior Member
isn't the committee of adjustments through the OMB? Anyways, in the last few years of lurking , the CofA has rarely refuses a variance application
Can't say by which route but it seems pretty easy to get live/work (basically a front door onto the street) subsituted for retail
Andrew3D
Active Member
unimaginative2
Senior Member
That's the whole point! Couldn't we just get some kind of project taking up five blocks of the waterfront that doesn't have a Rabba-Movie-Store-Dry-Cleaners as its sole publicly-oriented component?
urbandreamer
recession proof
what's that girl's phone number? i wanna see where she makes her money!
interesting little planters--some colourful sculpted (by a toronto artist who is NOT famous yet) planters along the waterfront--giant-style like philippe starck--would be fantastic especially if they had evergreens+flowers for winter beauty as well.
insiders: what's the sales figures like for this project and where can i hang out with AA workers? Do they still work out of that adelaide st office so maybe happy hour@some adelaide west hang out? tia.
interesting little planters--some colourful sculpted (by a toronto artist who is NOT famous yet) planters along the waterfront--giant-style like philippe starck--would be fantastic especially if they had evergreens+flowers for winter beauty as well.
insiders: what's the sales figures like for this project and where can i hang out with AA workers? Do they still work out of that adelaide st office so maybe happy hour@some adelaide west hang out? tia.