Toronto Waterlink at Pier 27 | 43.89m | 14s | Cityzen | a—A

US: Are you really trying to tell us that the waterfront needs more Harbour Squares? If so, you're in a distinct minority and I respect that. I don't quite get the anti-capitalist rhetoric, though. You've proven that you enjoy going out shopping as much as the rest of us. If you really want purely parkland on the waterfront, that's of course an extremely popular position with many people, but that wouldn't seem to jive with support for this condo.

I respect your opinions on our city very much, so that's why I'm so confused by your take on this project. I see that you also support Project Symphony, which proposes a very different vision of the waterfront, one which I support regardless of the actual architecture involved. Of course I think that Pier 27 is an attractive building, but I just don't think that purely residential uses are appropriate for the central waterfront. I'm well aware that there is public space in this project, and that there will be a walkway along the water. A walkway isn't enough. I can say from experience in dozens of successful waterfront neighbourhoods around the world, from Sydney to Barcelona to Tel Aviv, that the key is a vibrant mix of uses including shops, restaurants, and other public uses. While I obviously see the value of parks and open space, it seems very obvious to me that any successful, pedestrian-oriented strip -- like Queen or Bloor or Danforth or any other in Toronto -- is the continuity of the businesses. You can't have vast gaps of condo townhouses stretching for blocks in the middle of your pedestrian-oriented street. Recall that shops and restaurants both along Queens Quay and along the waterfront promenade were recommended in both the TWRC plan that came as a result of endless public consultations, and the rival Jack Diamond plan.
 
luvbrka: I strolled the waterfront from the Music Garden to Redpath Sugar recently and can honestly say that the supposedly non-existent public space behind Harbour Square was one of the most enjoyable stations in the whole somewhat manic, overdesigned, tourist-oriented via dolorosa that I peregrinated. I agree with you that Harbour Square was a pioneering venture that helped transform our perception of the waterfront from a place of declining industry to somewhere that people can live, and indeed have made that point here before. In a city of endless reinventions and grand planning gestures that go nowhere, I recall several attempts to "rejuvenate" the land south of Harbour Square - build jettys out into the lake or whatever - and I'm rather pleased that it still remains the land that time forgot, with many claiming that it doesn't even exist at all because, for idealogical reasons presumably, it can't possibly exist because it is, well ... the Great Satan Harbour Square, where nothing good can exist.
 
I also wonder about people who are OK with office towers on the south side of QQ but not condos....

I know the answer why and it is obvious, but I dare not say it......
 
Maybe I can't... I'm genuinely curious!

Oooh...and just in case you're referring to me, please be sure you've read what I've said. I have never been at all critical of condos on the waterfront, just as long as they're not on the ground floor.
 
I must say that I have to agree with the comment about the park south of 33 Harbour Square. It is a nice, relatively unused spot there (although I do prefer the Music Garden for a variety of reasons) and the building does provide something a barrier from traffic noise so that's a very good point I hadn't considered. That Harbour Square and Weston Hotel were built at a time when nothing much was down there greatly softens my stance against the buildings. I remember as a kid in the early to mid 70's going to the Island every summer and disliking the walk from union station but was happy once we boarded the ferry at the old terminal. The waterfront sure wasn't anything of a destination back then.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Maybe I can't... I'm genuinely curious!

Oooh...and just in case you're referring to me, please be sure you've read what I've said. I have never been at all critical of condos on the waterfront, just as long as they're not on the ground floor.
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Fair enough.

I would just prefer not give my opinion on this one. I don't want 100 posts telling me that I am a jerk! I don't consider that a fun time!
 
How would the Harbour Square park be w/o the ferry terminal? Something to consider re its success (parallel to how the subway interchange "saves" Hudson's Bay Centre--sometimes, just being a nexus for circulation can de-execrify the otherwise execrable).
 
It really is just the townhouse component that irks me at this point.

As for Harbour Square without the ferries...I think it depends on what would be there instead of the terminal. It certainly generates traffic in the park, but more people would be inclined to pass through the area if the terminal wasn't an obstacle, stretching the touristy waterfront eastward - assuming the water's edge around the Westin was also freed up. I don't think it would do anything to make the Harbour Square park feel less like Harbour Square property, though.

Not everyone is a fearless flaneur, many people need retail or civic *somethingness* to buffer them from residences or the chaos of mixed uses on a micro-scale. Townhouses on the waterfront will blur the line between public and private space and while some may applaud this arrangement as good design, we'll have to wait and see how regular crowds react to it...if people avoid the space, it is a failure.
 
I like how HtO phase 2 - which will open soon - will act to bring people near to that nice condo ( forget the name of it, the one that won a GG's architecture award ) which will, in turn, encourage them to walk westwards and around it and back up to the Quay.
 
Urban Shocker said:
I like how HtO phase 2 - which will open soon - will act to bring people near to that nice condo ( forget the name of it, the one that won a GG's architecture award ) which will, in turn, encourage them to walk westwards and around it and back up to the Quay.
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I can't wait until it phase 2 opens- we'll be able to walk from Bay to Bathurst and actually be able walk along the lake for the entire stretch.
 
not so sweet smell of sugar

I was walking along the Queens Quay today towards Jarvis from Yonge St. and noticed a real stench very strong and over powering. I realized that it was coming from the sugar plant. This wasn't the only time. Through out the year there's always that stinky sweet sometimes pungent smell especially during the hot summer months. Knowing this, would anyone want to buy a unit at Pier27? I wouldn't.
 
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