Toronto Warden Station Redevelopment | 13.11m | 2s | TTC | SAI

artyboy123

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
6,782
Location
Midtown
Taken from the devapp:

"The proposal is for the Warden TTC Station to undergo a partial demolition and partial retention of existing facilities. The proposed redevelopment comprises of accessibility upgrades, partial demolition and construction of a new bus terminal with a concourse. The balance of the lands at the immediate northwest corner and other parts of the site would remain in their current condition and are excluded from the scope of this redevelopment."

DevApp: http://app.toronto.ca/AIC/index.do?folderRsn=uzITr0izWM2T0j20wbEOXw==

Rendering taken from Site Plan Approval via Architectural Plan:

PLN - Architectural Plans - NOV 25  2022-3.jpg


PLN - Architectural Plans - NOV 25  2022-4.jpg


PLN - Architectural Plans - NOV 25  2022-4a.jpg
 
Is there possibly a reason they cannot? This station is right next to a hydro corridor after all.
The plan is to get rid of the silo bus bays, reduce their footprint within what will be a better "island" style bus terminal anyway, and open up more land at the fairly expansive site for housing and other development.

42
 
The plan is to get rid of the silo bus bays, reduce their footprint within what will be a better "island" style bus terminal anyway, and open up more land at the fairly expansive site for housing and other development.

42
Ah, ok thanks. So it’s just not happening right now.
 
This project is the subject of a report on next week's TTC agenda.

The report seeks delegated authority from The Commission for the CEO to award the tender for the next phase of this project during the summer break from meetings.


The argument is that this will allow construction to begin up to 7 weeks earlier.

I'm not entirely sure why the TTC can't have a one-item special meeting later this month to do this; perhaps I'm just not that trusting of this TTC CEO.....
 
This project is the subject of a report on next week's TTC agenda.

The report seeks delegated authority from The Commission for the CEO to award the tender for the next phase of this project during the summer break from meetings.


The argument is that this will allow construction to begin up to 7 weeks earlier.

I'm not entirely sure why the TTC can't have a one-item special meeting later this month to do this; perhaps I'm just not that trusting of this TTC CEO.....
Don’t you know, Rick Leary hasn’t made up his mind yet. He’s still undecided:

 
This project is the subject of a report on next week's TTC agenda.

The report seeks delegated authority from The Commission for the CEO to award the tender for the next phase of this project during the summer break from meetings.


The argument is that this will allow construction to begin up to 7 weeks earlier.

I'm not entirely sure why the TTC can't have a one-item special meeting later this month to do this; perhaps I'm just not that trusting of this TTC CEO.....
Screenshot 2023-07-12 at 18.15.14.png

Some renderings are in the TTC Board document - I found this plan useful, showing the future station.
 
View attachment 491827
Some renderings are in the TTC Board document - I found this plan useful, showing the future station.
Thinking about this - the complete disconnect of TTC and Create TO means decisions have been made such as a) not rebuilding the substations with a development on top b) not building on top of the bus terminal or the station c) not building anything where the PPUDO will be located, or integrating a PPUDO into a development.

Instead, the TTC will hand a parcel of land to Create TO and require a connection through it from the station to Warden Ave.

A missed opportunity? No. But certainly not exemplary TOD.
 
Thinking about this - the complete disconnect of TTC and Create TO means decisions have been made such as a) not rebuilding the substations with a development on top b) not building on top of the bus terminal or the station c) not building anything where the PPUDO will be located, or integrating a PPUDO into a development.

Instead, the TTC will hand a parcel of land to Create TO and require a connection through it from the station to Warden Ave.

A missed opportunity? No. But certainly not exemplary TOD.
In a lot of ways the Agency model at the city creates these disconnects. TTC, Hydro, CreateTO, TPL, Toronto Zoo, etc are all Agencies outside of the regular civil service, and there is no structure to make everything work together. Which is why Hydro are always tearing up recently built sidewalks, or CreateTO can't integrate development into TTC rebuilds. The whole model of how the City delivers services needs a rework if we want it to be more interconnected, which will most likely not be cheap or easy.
 
In a lot of ways the Agency model at the city creates these disconnects. TTC, Hydro, CreateTO, etc are all Agencies outside of the regular civil service, and there is no structure to make everything work together. Which is why Hydro are always tearing up recently built sidewalks, or CreateTO can't integrate development into TTC rebuilds. The whole model of how the City delivers services needs a rework if we want it to be more interconnected, which will most likely not be cheap or easy.

This bit isn't quite true.

There is a committee w/reps from all the agencies that meets semi-regularly to coordinate things, and that's what TO Inview was set up for as well. Every agency is supposed to put every project they need to work on, on that platform so everyone else can see what's up; and before anyone plans to do anything they're supposed to check TO Inview to make sure there aren't any conflicts.

Now does the above work as intended? Sometimes............but not as well as you might hope.

There are a lot of reasons for that.

Most utilities, including Rogers/Bell/Telus have a right to rip up anything to make 'emergency' repairs'. The City is generally not allowed to refuse them. That's the single largest chunk of surprise dig-ups.

Then there are things where one agency may not realize they have an issue needing attention with project 'x'; and only find out when someone else starts digging. See, the reconstruction of the streetcar track at Church/Carlton where crews didn't realize the hydro vault was sitting too high to make the current project design work.

There are also departments/agencies which don't make regular use of TO Inview, directions to do so notwithstanding. Parks is bad for this.

Then you just have churn (staff turnover) and low institutional memory, "I didn't know we were supposed to do that, this way, no one told me, there was no flag on the file"

Throw in the odd competence issue.......

Also problematic is that for a variety of reasons projects move up/down the priority list in the schedule; so one agency checks.......oh, the other guys want to do that in 2029, we have lots of time to see if there's anything we need done there. (April '24); now by Sept '24, that same project has been bumped up to 2025.......and agency number 2 isn't ready.

****

Finally, in narrower terms, looking at the discussion by @turini2 ; You have lots of complex issues with being more ambitious; budget is among them for everyone. Building over another asset adds costs to asset number one, whose paying? The lawyers need to sort out strata issues. (The TTC still owns the bus terminal, but would now share certain infrastructure in common with any building over the top........that does make for complications.

To be clear, I'm all in favour of more civic ambition, but it requires the budget, staff hired for ambition, and who are encouraged to be bold and excel, and it requires lead time, lots of it. It can and should be done.........but it often isn't.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top