Toronto Velocity at the Square | 122.52m | 40s | HNR | P + S / IBI

[agoraflaneur]

Interesting marcus, I did not know that was a requirement - what art has come out of that program?

Drum, Budapest is beautiful, and I love the first fountain, but the other two pictures are exactly what I mean by what we should not have. That statue of the great man on top of women, other people and animals is simply the opposite of my ethos. These structures are mirrors of a bygone era to me.

A memorial of how Canada rejected needy immigrants is far better (IMHO) than that (admittedly beautiful) statue and fountain.

 

[Mississauga Slim]

Yes. What we need are monuments to remind us of our collective Guilt. And any number of monuments to the victims of your choice. We could take a poll.

 

[adma]

Ultimately this "fountains and statuary" argument is a potboiler. And that some are lamenting Toronto's so-called "failed urbanity" for its lack of that shows that, really, they aren't half as sophisticated as they think they are.

Which is all off-topic to this thread anyway. Except that--put it this way. The existing Hermant/HNR may not be a Splendid Architectural Monument (TM). But to say "it's crap" and then go "oooh, wow, fountains, statuary, oooh, oooh" would mark you as *really* infantile in your urban visioning...

 

[marcus_a_j]

Interesting marcus, I did not know that was a requirement - what art has come out of that program?

There's a whole bunch around the City, ranging from statues/figures (18 Yonge) to sculptures (various CityPlace phases) to lighting (Bay-Adelaide West (interior lobby)). There's some more examples in this Public Art Guidelines document. I wish there was some database where one could go to and see all the pieces that have come out of the program over the years.

 

[drum118]

Wow, where is that last picture from? It looks like a taller Trevi Fountain, and I don't think I've seen it before!

The Palace in Budapest. I wish the lighting was better as it was going south when I was shooting the Palace.

There are a number of others I saw that would be a great addition to the city or any other city.

Not sure on other cities but Toronto and a few others want 1% or x $ for public art either on the project site or within the local area. Sheridan College in Mississauga has art work on site as well the Roundabout. I think $75,000 went to the Roundabout art work and not what was plan for it when it show up.

 

[drum118]

Interesting marcus, I did not know that was a requirement - what art has come out of that program?

Drum, Budapest is beautiful, and I love the first fountain, but the other two pictures are exactly what I mean by what we should not have. That statue of the great man on top of women, other people and animals is simply the opposite of my ethos. These structures are mirrors of a bygone era to me.

A memorial of how Canada rejected needy immigrants is far better (IMHO) than that (admittedly beautiful) statue and fountain.

The 2nd one was a so so one and not at the top of my list.

You can have this from Berlin

This from Amsterdam

from Vienna

from Prague

 

[LowPolygon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlock

 

[adma]

Well, I'd judticiously allow for a little kitsch and schlock as part of healthy urbanity. But sometimes I get this feeling that some people/posters hate Y-D square for a lot of the wrong reasons--and ditto w/Nathan Phillips Square and whatever else might seem too "modern", "barren", et al...

 

[drum118]

Well, I'd judticiously allow for a little kitsch and schlock as part of healthy urbanity. But sometimes I get this feeling that some people/posters hate Y-D square for a lot of the wrong reasons--and ditto w/Nathan Phillips Square and whatever else might seem too "modern", "barren", et al...

What would you call this Square in Berlin??

 

[agoraflaneur]

Thanks for the photos Drum, it is always interesting to get an international perspective.

I do like very much the post-industrial sculpture, it speaks of our moment today, with rust piles heaping up around us we need inspiration to create a new world with the remnants of the past.

The "Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe" in your second photo also corresponds perfectly to the (perhaps not ironically) post-industrial Komagata Maru memorial in Coal Harbour. It is both a fascinating public space and a visceral reminder that humans have to capacity to hurt others, which the future cannot repeat. It is not merely a reminder of collective guilt, but a physical representation of the future building we can do - the catharsis if you will - with the past injustices we have done. Would anti-memorial posters prefer we take the Japanese "let's put our heads under the sand" route to memorialization?

I don't mind some statues of people like those you have posted, I just think that they speak to the past, not to the future. The same goes for the fountains in Prague. They are based on aesthetics of the past meant to remind us of royalty, aristocracy, and often the church. To my thinking these are not the reference points of the future that public dollars should be presenting - however pleasing this bourgeois aesthetic might be (Prague being of course amazing).

 

[adma]

What would you call this Square in Berlin??

I don't mind that kind of "barrenness"--at least insofar as Berlin's adjusted to it nicely. (And Behrens is always a plus.)

Then again, there may be those Asian-boomburg intensification-lovers who'd think that those Behrens buildings are too old, dreary, dumpy, etc, and that a oh-wow starchitect-supertall replacement would be real nifty...

 

[adma]

Come to think of it, Behrens is to Alexanderplatz as HNR is to Y-D Square...interesting way to look at it...

 

[balenciaga]

The same goes for the fountains in Prague. They are based on aesthetics of the past meant to remind us of royalty, aristocracy, and often the church. To my thinking these are not the reference points of the future that public dollars should be presenting - however pleasing this bourgeois aesthetic might be (Prague being of course amazing).

Do you really think if we have more fountains in Toronto, people and kids when seem them will think of royalty, aristocracy and churches?
And if we have more statutes, they don't have to be in the form of kings and queens, do they? They can be war heros, previous reputable PMs, famous Canadian scientists and artists, or something abstract.

Statutes and fountains look nice and make cities more pleasing to the eyes. They don't have a necessary connection with the royalty.

When I said YD was so tiny, I was actually thinking about Piazza San Marco. That's the size of a square Toronto needs downtown, not that little cute space not even big enough for a bunch of 6 year olds to play in.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Do you really think if we have more fountains in Toronto, people and kids when seem them will think of royalty, aristocracy and churches?
And if we have more statutes, they don't have to be in the form of kings and queens, do they? They can be war heros, previous reputable PMs, famous Canadian scientists and artists, or something abstract.

Statutes and fountains look nice and make cities more pleasing to the eyes. They don't have a necessary connection with the royalty.

When I said YD was so tiny, I was actually thinking about Piazza San Marco. That's the size of a square Toronto needs downtown, not that little cute space not even big enough for a bunch of 6 year olds to play in.

I know you've chosen to float with the pond scum and ignore everyone with whom you don't agree but on the off chance you do manage to see this, why?

 

[adma]

I know you've chosen to float with the pond scum and ignore everyone with whom you don't agree but on the off chance you do manage to see this, why?

Yeah, I notice that, too.

For someone who so dearly wants Toronto to show "urban sophistication", he sure comes across as a parvenu of questionable taste...