Toronto Vü Condos | 83.51m | 24s | Aspen Ridge | Hariri Pontarini

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March 22 2009 update

Vu North Tower seen from Queen Street~
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I was noticing yesterday, while observing the progress on VU, that while most units were separated by a concrete wall, some didn't appear so, and had only support concrete columns up.

Is it not standard practice to divide units with full concrete walls?

If not, how do they sound proof?
 
Calrissian said:
I was noticing yesterday, while observing the progress on VU, that while most units were separated by a concrete wall, some didn't appear so, and had only support concrete columns up.

Is it not standard practice to divide units with full concrete walls?

If not, how do they sound proof?
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Based on my observation of the construction of Edge Loft by Streetcar Developments, concrete walls separating units does not appear to be standard practice. That entire building seems to be made of drywall, other than the floor-plates and the outer 4 walls. As for soundproofing, it is a problem. I'm acquaintances with someone who purchased a condo at 22 Wellesley and was able to hear the clanging of his neighbours' cutlery at mealtimes. He moved out (temporarily) and went on to spend about $20,000 to properly soundproof his unit. Luckily for him, he had the resources for such an obscene expense. Moral of the story: Buyer Beware.
 
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Is it not standard practice to divide units with full concrete walls?
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While I am not familiar with "standard practise" in condo construction I know that a relatively thin panel of concrete is not a good barrier to sound. The sound bridges through the concrete to the other side quite readily. Even concrete floors are subject to sound bridging. A condo above which has no floor covering is subject to bothersome noise from high heel use for example. One of the attractive aspects of engineerd flooring is that it floats on a foam type separation barrier reducing sound bridging.

Where sound is a concern between units normally two stud walls are built with a small space between them so that sound does not bridge. There is also a product in all lumber stores called resiliant channel. One side goes on the stud and the other on the drywall, again to prevent sound bridging. The OBC requires the use of this product between certain occupancies.

There are more exotic materials on the market for example Sound Divide. This drywall has a metal layer covered with a polymer. Sound energy is converted to heat energy providing the equivalent to 4 or 5 layers of drywall. There are more heavy duty materials for tougher applications. The treatment of sound in residential occupancies is a science in itself and this discussion only skims the surface.
 
Thanks for the pics, ProjectEnd.

I'm still not sure what I think of the ground level treatment at the corner of Jarvis and Adelaide. I think I would have preferred something more solid than the high and wide gap that will be there. When I originally heard about the rehabilitation of this block, I was quite excited. I'm still quite enamormed with the project and how thoroughly it will improve this block. However, for me, the other side meets the street in a more friendly way, even with driveway entrance and the lack of skewed posts (which, frankly, I prefer).
 
I see your concern. Then again maybe the 'gap' will feel like a sort of archway? Not sure, will have to see it finished and in context. Otherwise I think this is quite a nice design and creates a sense of entrance to St. James Park from the east. I will also miss the slanted columns, they added a nice little detail, and hope they will plant those trees!
 
Tewder said:
I see your concern. Then again maybe the 'gap' will feel like a sort of archway? Not sure, will have to see it finished and in context. Otherwise I think this is quite a nice design and creates a sense of entrance to St. James Park from the east. I will also miss the slanted columns, they added a nice little detail, and hope they will plant those trees!
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Yes, it definitely will provide a good viewpoint from the interior courtyard into the park and vice versa. You've got a good point that it will create a sense of entrance from the park. Likely this is what Pontarini had in mind. But from a pedestrian's point of view on the sidewalk other than near the park (or driver's POV, as this is still very much an intersection of fast moving traffic), I wonder if it will feel somehow less friendly. I'll withhold further judgement until it's completed.

I hope those trees get planted, too, and not just scraggly little ones with no proper soil or room for roots to grow, as the area east of Jarvis needs greenery! :)
 
I noticed a couple of lower units over at London were created by simply inserting good old fashioned concrete block walls. I was surpised at that and wondered if there was a possible design change after the precast walls had been poured as the building went up.

Rusty said:
While I am not familiar with "standard practise" in condo construction I know that a relatively thin panel of concrete is not a good barrier to sound. The sound bridges through the concrete to the other side quite readily. Even concrete floors are subject to sound bridging. A condo above which has no floor covering is subject to bothersome noise from high heel use for example. One of the attractive aspects of engineerd flooring is that it floats on a foam type separation barrier reducing sound bridging.

Where sound is a concern between units normally two stud walls are built with a small space between them so that sound does not bridge. There is also a product in all lumber stores called resiliant channel. One side goes on the stud and the other on the drywall, again to prevent sound bridging. The OBC requires the use of this product between certain occupancies.

There are more exotic materials on the market for example Sound Divide. This drywall has a metal layer covered with a polymer. Sound energy is converted to heat energy providing the equivalent to 4 or 5 layers of drywall. There are more heavy duty materials for tougher applications. The treatment of sound in residential occupancies is a science in itself and this discussion only skims the surface.
Click to expand...
 
good old fashioned concrete block walls
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Wall material choice may be affected by:
  • weight
  • foundation requirements
  • security needs
  • weather exposure and insulation requirements
  • structural requirements
  • mechanical raceways
  • conduit runs
  • fire separation requirements
  • trade availability etc.
and sound. Block walls are somewhat better than concrete as a noise barrier.
 
This project is turning out beautifully so far. A vast improvement over the Goodwill building that was there before. I walked by the other night and though that the brickwork was particularly well done. Thanks for the pics.
 
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