Toronto Urban Sprawl Compared to Other Cities

[TheTigerMaster]

With less young people driving, developers should build for the transit user, bicycle riders, and walking people. However, they still have a mindset towards the automobile. It will take more decades before developers and politicans change, unfortunately.

The problem is that young people aren't the ones buying these properties. They should watch to see if sales to people in their 30s are slowing down as well. So far there has been a slowdown, but not nearly as dramatic as what we've seen with people in their 20s and teens.

 

[middeljohn]

What will be interesting to see is what will happen to these gigantic subdivisions in a few decades when it literally becomes too expensive for most people to drive everywhere.

 

[11th]

What will be interesting to see is what will happen to these gigantic subdivisions in a few decades when it literally becomes too expensive for most people to drive everywhere.

There are things call alternative energy sources other than fossil fuels.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Given that Ontario is now almost exclusively run on renewables (or Natural gas which is so plentiful its a joke) and the trend of electric cars, I don't see too much of an issue.

 

[freshcutgrass]

There are things call alternative energy sources other than fossil fuels.

Except these alternative energy sources aren't cheap either (which is why we aren't using them). And the increased costs of living in sprawl goes far beyond just what you fuel your vehicle with.

I think people have just been hearing the term "unsustainable" for so long, they forgot what it means.

 

[ehlow]

There are things call alternative energy sources other than fossil fuels.

None has come close to the energy we get off fossil fuels yet. Hydro & nuclear seem to show the most potential from what I've read. Good thing we have both in Ontario, but energy could still become expensive if fossil fuels get low.

Electric cars aren't the magic fix because electricity could go up in price.

Gas prices have already gone up a huge amount and people do drive less as a result of it.

 

[ehlow]

What will be interesting to see is what will happen to these gigantic subdivisions in a few decades when it literally becomes too expensive for most people to drive everywhere.

In the states there will be some devaluation of certain neighbourhoods, although that has already happened in many places.

In Toronto, there could be a lowering of property values for those further from transit and an increase for those who live near transit, although that has already happened and is happening.

In Toronto optimistically, it will be necessary for many to walk 5-15 minutes to the nearest concession road to catch the bus in order to get around. I used to do that when I grew in the suburbs. For those who are healthy and able, biking could become one possible way to get around if gas & electricity or other car related expenses costs too much.

 

[diminutive]

None has come close to the energy we get off fossil fuels yet. Hydro & nuclear seem to show the most potential from what I've read. Good thing we have both in Ontario, but energy could still become expensive if fossil fuels get low.

Grid power isn't a huge issue. Our existing grid isn't very fossil fuel dependant... NatGas is pretty abundant at the moment, but it's even conceivable to imagine a 100% nuclear/hydro/wind/solar grid.

More over, presumably most EVs recharge at night, so it would just balance out loads.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

I disagree. From my own experience I can say that young people around me don't want cars largely because it's seen as an extra hassle. Also many are fine with taking public transit. The TTC is 'good enough' and the hassles/responsibilities of car ownership aren't worth the trouble. Even among the teens that do want a car, it's merely something that is nice to have. A pie in the sky dream that is more or less dead last on the list of their priorities. Of course I live went to school downtown and attitudes may be different further from the core, though I haven't really noticed much difference.

Just gonna add my thoughts here: as a high school student from Markham, the general attitude of my peers is that the hassles of owning a car is a small price to pay for that extra convenience of being able to drive everywhere. Everyone wants a car. The consensus where I live is that public transit sucks (ahemYRTahem) and that those who still us the bus are jokingly looked down on. Although I do have some friends who agree that if they were to live in the core, they would use public transit more, but the only reason I've heard for that is so they don't have to deal with parking. So I guess you could say that attitudes are different from the core and here in Markham.

 

[ehlow]

Grid power isn't a huge issue. Our existing grid isn't very fossil fuel dependant... NatGas is pretty abundant at the moment, but it's even conceivable to imagine a 100% nuclear/hydro/wind/solar grid.

More over, presumably most EVs recharge at night, so it would just balance out loads.

Yeah that's a good thing, but world-wide fossil fuels are still a large part of electricity generation and energy use. There's also the increasing energy demands of the third world.

EVs are a good step, I just think the price of driving could continue to increase, whether electric or gas. People will adapt, for example joining car-sharing programs instead of owning a car, or having one car per household instead of two, and using walking/transit/biking a more.

 

[ehlow]

Just gonna add my thoughts here: as a high school student from Markham, the general attitude of my peers is that the hassles of owning a car is a small price to pay for that extra convenience of being able to drive everywhere. Everyone wants a car. The consensus where I live is that public transit sucks (ahemYRTahem) and that those who still us the bus are jokingly looked down on. Although I do have some friends who agree that if they were to live in the core, they would use public transit more, but the only reason I've heard for that is so they don't have to deal with parking. So I guess you could say that attitudes are different from the core and here in Markham.

Of course that's how how it is in Markham or any other car-dominated suburban area.

However, I'm speculating that some of your classmates will go to university at U of T, rent a room in the Annex or Bloor west or wherever, and decide they like living downtown where many more things are within walking distance. Some of them will get jobs downtown and decide to rent a condo downtown throughout their 20's, or share a house near a transit line, and walk, take transit or bike to get to work.

When you're single and young you'll want to be where other young people are and there are plenty of things to do, bars, restaurants, sporting events etc.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Delete

 

[diminutive]

Of course that's how how it is in Markham or any other car-dominated suburban area.

However, I'm speculating that some of your classmates will go to university at U of T, rent a room in the Annex or Bloor west or wherever, and decide they like living downtown where many more things are within walking distance. Some of them will get jobs downtown and decide to rent a condo downtown throughout their 20's, or share a house near a transit line, and walk, take transit or bike to get to work.

When you're single and young you'll want to be where other young people are and there are plenty of things to do, bars, restaurants, sporting events etc.

I'm always amazed how many UofT students drive their BMWs to campus! Many people, given the choice by their parents between living downtown or getting 3Series/A4/370z, seem to choose the car.

 

[ehlow]

I'm always amazed how many UofT students drive their BMWs to campus! Many people, given the choice by their parents between living downtown or getting 3Series/A4/370z, seem to choose the car.

We're just going to have to disagree I guess, my experience is that more and more young people are going car-free, especially those who live & work downtown. Although a lot of them own cars but just don't drive them to work, they only use them occasionally. I think the data shows young people in general don't own cars or drive as much anymore as well, but I don't have the source on hand.

I'm pretty sure there are more students biking, walking or taking the TTC to U of T than driving a BMW

 

[11th]

I'm always amazed how many UofT students drive their BMWs to campus! Many people, given the choice by their parents between living downtown or getting 3Series/A4/370z, seem to choose the car.

The social life of those who drive those cars to U of T carries out at places north of 401, or more so, north of Steeles.