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Toronto Urban Sprawl Compared to Other Cities

11th said:
The social life of those who drive those cars to U of T carries out at places north of 401, or more so, north of Steeles.
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I don't know what you guys are basing these presumptions on, but the majority of U of T students driving higher end luxury vehicles live in nice condo units in the downtown core. These are international students whose parents have the financial wherewithal to not only pay for higher tuition rates, but a condo and nice car to boot.

Besides BMWs you see kids driving Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. all over U of T campus.
 
Translude15 said:
I don't know what you guys are basing these presumptions on, but the majority of U of T students driving higher end luxury vehicles live in nice condo units in the downtown core. These are international students whose parents have the financial wherewithal to not only pay for higher tuition rates, but a condo and nice car to boot.

Besides BMWs you see kids driving Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. all over U of T campus.
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My point still stands. They need their cars to get to those places north of Steeles. Residence does not fully equate to the area/places where you hang out with friends.
 
I'm just amazed that these people exist in the first place. Even if I was Bill Gates rich, I'd never give my kid some of the cars I see around UofT. I'd be embarrassed to drive some of these cars as an undergrad...
 
I couldn't imagine driving a Maserati or something as an undergrad.. A BMW 3 series, maybe, but not much more than that. 3 series aren't too expensive, having one obviously means your parents have tons of $$$ but not extravagance quite like a super car.

personally I would be happy to have some old junker haha.
 
It will be decades before the suburbs will develop into a more denser and walkable community. They were designed for the car, not walking. The city has to add sidewalks for one. Zoning has to be changed from single-use to multi-use. Even with that, homes could remain single-story, wide lot, and isolated from each other. The NIMBYs will probably up-rise against adding additional rooms or expansion.

Then there are the parking lots. Providing free parking for employees and customers only lets all of them to continue to drive. And having the buildings surrounded by a moat of asphalt does not help, and will continue until the site gets redeveloped.
 
It will be decades before the suburbs will develop into a more denser and walkable community. They were designed for the car, not walking. The city has to add sidewalks for one. Zoning has to be changed from single-use to multi-use.
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It isn't a case of just wanting to change....changing the zoning is easy. But most of the infrastructure and built form isn't compatible with a higher density, mixed-use, mass transit environment. It isn't like the old part of Toronto, that is on a street grid that allows changes to happen gradually on a property-by-property basis. Most of the 905 is not on a grid, and would literally need to be bulldozed and started from scratch. This is something that needs to be done on a large scale, which makes it highly improbable and impracticable.
 
Regarding students driving to U of T versus renting and living downtown, I think the perception is simply that, a perception. When you see one, two, or a dozen students driving downtown in their vehicles, it's easy to generalize and say,"Wow, all the U of T students drive to school!" while overlooking the fact that for every 1 student driving to school, there are likely 9 or more that either live downtown or commute via public transit. Unfortunately, all it takes is one student driving a BMW 7-series to school to elicit a sweeping generalization of all students.

As a U of T alumni, I can say that the biggest factor about driving to school really is the parking and/or the cost(s) associated with the parking pass. Convenience of finding a parking spot would be the second factor. Once the costs exceeds the value of driving, I think more students in the 905 will consider taking transit...or at least drive to the nearest TTC subway station and take transit the remainder of the way.
 
It's a ridiculous generalization to say most U of T St. George students drive to school. In reality, it's a tiny minority. Most take transit. Many live on campus or walk or bike from surrounding neighbourhoods.
 
It isn't a case of just wanting to change....changing the zoning is easy. But most of the infrastructure and built form isn't compatible with a higher density, mixed-use, mass transit environment. It isn't like the old part of Toronto, that is on a street grid that allows changes to happen gradually on a property-by-property basis. Most of the 905 is not on a grid, and would literally need to be bulldozed and started from scratch. This is something that needs to be done on a large scale, which makes it highly improbable and impracticable.
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Maybe the "Density, walk to your local greengrocer" crowd haven't noticed that those who live in the areas you rail against don`t bother to respond to your opinions, probably because they like where and how they live and are perfectly content to let you live where and how you choose without comment. Different strokes for different folks.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I couldn't imagine driving a Maserati or something as an undergrad.. A BMW 3 series, maybe, but not much more than that. 3 series aren't too expensive, having one obviously means your parents have tons of $$$ but not extravagance quite like a super car.

personally I would be happy to have some old junker haha.
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I might be stereotyping here, and this is mostly things I've heard anecdotally from a relative who works for a high end auto dealership, but many of those students you see driving supercars are mainland Chinese whose parents bought them that car not just to show off, but because they plan on exporting the car back to the mainland "second hand", thus avoiding the pricey excise taxes on foreign vehicles.

I'm not defending these rich kids, but in a way they are "helping" out our economy this way.
 
I think a good portion of U of T students take GO than drive. And of course those actually in Toronto take the TTC. But students are poor so some take 905 transit to the TTC.
 
Maybe the "Density, walk to your local greengrocer" crowd haven't noticed that those who live in the areas you rail against don`t bother to respond to your opinions, probably because they like where and how they live
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Well, first of all, I'm not interested in "their" response...I'm just stating the obvious. As for "your" apparent annoyance at my post...go ahead and ask me if I care.

And secondly, they aren't so happy about it at all. What part of unsustainable don't you comprehend anyway? The 905 are bitching about congestion (which in many cases is worse than Toronto). Solutions will be inadequate and very expensive because of a lack of prior infrastructure planning and investment.

Places like Missy and Brampton aren't going to be the bargain places to live any more, and really have no redeeming qualities beyond that. Property values are probably going to stagnate, as taxes will be high with little to show for it. I don't see much of the 905 as a candidate for gentrification either. As the manufacturing industry continues to shrink, the massive industrial zones of the 905 may become brownfield redevelopment sites, where smarter mixed use development may be able to take place.

To make matters worse, I hope we toll the living crap out of them as they enter Toronto.
 
I don't know, the whole city/suburb divide seems silly to me. More and more people are choosing to work from home and live more 'locally', and this isn't just in old Toronto. Nobody really wants to commute, right?

To which... seems to me the potential for greater density/transit infrastructure development in certain areas of the 905 is greater than some might first think. Hurontario in Mississauga already has huge potential, as do many of the major arteries that connect communities from Hamilton all the way into the city. We're already seeing denser higher rise construction along major suburban thoroughfares (from 'Toronto' style tower/podium condos to 'live/work' style low rise), we just need the transit to connect the region and all of its hubs (not just Toronto).
 
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