Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

The Union Station Renovation cost 800 million while New York spent 1.6 billion or double.

If you spend double, you are going to get a better quality result. This Moynihan Train Hall was done on budget and on time. It's also very inspirational and has a wow factor. Union Station Renovation lacks the wow factor.

I love taking the Maple Leaf Train to New York city.

I am eagerly looking forward to taking it again since once the pandemic is over and checking out Moynihan Train Hall.
 
condovo said:
Inside new Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station in NYC

Moynihan Train Hall - Penn Station Expansion

This is kind of off-topic and kind of relevant. Just look at the magnificent new Moynihan Train Hall / Penn Station Expansion in NYC. Nothing will replace the original Penn Station--arguably the worst loss of architectural heritage in American history--but this comes pretty close.

I wonder how the budget here compares to our own Union Station re-do, square-foot for square-foot.
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Does it?

I can't say I'm that impressed. Don't get me wrong, it's nice - but if anything I feel like we're getting more than our money's worth with Union Station.
 
syn said:
Does it?

I can't say I'm that impressed. Don't get me wrong, it's nice - but if anything I feel like we're getting more than our money's worth with Union Station.
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Yeah, I feel very blessed that we have Union Station. Beautiful building with easy access to other modes, more beautiful than the new Penn or Moynihan, and where pretty much the only thing left to fix is the platforms. The Penn complex will be a nightmare to get up to par.
 
condovo said:
Inside new Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station in NYC

Moynihan Train Hall - Penn Station Expansion

This is kind of off-topic and kind of relevant. Just look at the magnificent new Moynihan Train Hall / Penn Station Expansion in NYC. Nothing will replace the original Penn Station--arguably the worst loss of architectural heritage in American history--but this comes pretty close.

I wonder how the budget here compares to our own Union Station re-do, square-foot for square-foot.
Click to expand...
Ah! Last time I took the train to Newark airport, I made the "mistake" of entering those new doors on the west side of Eighth - they were much more optimistically signed than reality, which was a long walk back to the usual place, underground. It looked beautiful and modern - but I couldn't see the point - especially with luggage.

I hadn't realised this was the plan! Hopefully the rebuild the rest of it someday ... I'd think there would be a lot of opportunity to elevate Madison Square Gardens and build a decent terminal at ground level over the tracks. And put something in the airspace above the gardens.

The existing arena must be pushing the end of it's life I'd guess.
 
Here is some commentary that came my way as a year-end look at things related to Union Station. Certainly a lot has been going on.
I posted some other commentary in the USRC thread, the text below deals mostly with the depot itself and the corridor infrastructure details are in the other thread.
One hopes that the COVID pause helped this work get done faster and cheaper.
I presume the "we/our" in the text is Metrolinx speaking.

- Paul

Pedestrian & Cyclist Connectivity Study
The PCCS which was initiated fall 2018 and considered a number of possible future options to improve
pedestrian and cycling connectivity across the USRC is now complete. The study was undertaken by our
consultant and included three phases of analysis with input from local stakeholders and residents. Several
options have been carried forward at each corridor and the benefits and challenges of each have been
documented. Metrolinx is meeting with the City and Waterfront Toronto in early 2021, and wishes to
thank the community for their time, effort, input and engagement during this process which has been
critical to the completion of the study and has been incorporated into the final report.

Union Station Enhancement Project
The Union Station Enhancement Project (USEP) is a multi-package delivery of works to Union Station,
including extensive heritage restorations, concourse and platform connection improvements and other
items to enhance train service and customer experience. USEP early enabling works and heritage
restorations currently underway at platform and concourse levels are targeted for completion March
2021. Platform 20/21 will undergo upgrades starting spring of 2021 to convert 3 heritage freight elevator
shafts to stairways for improved shared access of track 11 by GO and VIA rail.

Union Station Bus Terminal
The new Union Station Bus Terminal (USBT) is now open and operational at 81 Bay Street (north-east
corner of Bay and Lake Shore Blvd. just south of the former bus terminal). The enhanced USBT provides
customers a safer, more convenient, and more efficient transit experience with better connections to rail
and subway services as well as other popular destinations.

Bay Street Overbuild Park
In addition to the new bus terminal, the CIBC Square development will include two office towers and an
overbuild park spanning the GO rail corridor. The Overbuild Park will be a public green space situated over
the rail corridor at Bay Street is expected to be partially opened as part of Phase 1 (81 Bay St. tower) of
the project in 2021 and fully opened as part of Phase 2 (141 Bay St. tower), at the beginning of 2024.
 
Mercenary said:
The Union Station Renovation cost 800 million while New York spent 1.6 billion or double.

If you spend double, you are going to get a better quality result. This Moynihan Train Hall was done on budget and on time. It's also very inspirational and has a wow factor. Union Station Renovation lacks the wow factor.
Click to expand...
Just for for some more clarity. You forget that's 800 million CAD vs 1.6 billion USD. So, really Moynihan cost 2.5 times as much.
Mercenary said:
They spend 1.6 billion dollars on this. Construction started in 2017 and finished it 4 years later and it opened on new Year 2021.

I really hope they rebuild the original Penn Station. MSG lease is up in 2023, sounds like a great time to demolish the existing structure and rebuild it
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To be fair, construction at Union had to be worked around a fully active train station, whereas construction at Moynihan was done with a decommissioned postal office.

The Knicks alone are worth about $4.6 billion USD according to Forbes, not to speak of the Rangers. So, messing with MSG is not going to be so easy.

condovo said:
This is kind of off-topic and kind of relevant. Just look at the magnificent new Moynihan Train Hall / Penn Station Expansion in NYC. Nothing will replace the original Penn Station--arguably the worst loss of architectural heritage in American history--but this comes pretty close.
Click to expand...
By the way, the post office building was designed as a companion to Penn Station by the same architects, McKim, Mead & White.
 
The cost of this seems to mean it's a fairly amjor thing. Where will the newew Security Office be located?

BA117.2
ACTION​
​
​
Ward: 10​
Award of Ariba Doc Number 2487291193 to ROSSCLAIR Contractors Inc., for the Construction of a New Corporate Security Office at Union Station for Corporate Real Estate Management​
Origin​
(January 7, 2021) Report from the Chief Procurement Officer​
Recommendations​
The Chief Procurement Officer recommends that the Bid Award Panel grant authority to award the following contract:

Solicitation Number:
Request for Tender (RFT), Ariba Doc Number 2487291193

Description:
Ariba Doc Number 2487291193 (4-2020), to complete interior renovations for a new Corporate Security Office at Union Station to facilitate the relocation of the existing security office.

Recommended Supplier:
ROSSCLAIR Contractors Inc.

Contract Award Value:
$1,263,675 net of all applicable taxes and charges
$1,427,953 including HST and all applicable charges
$1,285,916 net of HST recoveries

Contract is expected to start on date of award and end on July 02, 202​
 
DSC said:
The cost of this seems to mean it's a fairly amjor thing. Where will the newew Security Office be located?

BA117.2
ACTION​
​
​
Ward: 10​
Award of Ariba Doc Number 2487291193 to ROSSCLAIR Contractors Inc., for the Construction of a New Corporate Security Office at Union Station for Corporate Real Estate Management​
Origin​
(January 7, 2021) Report from the Chief Procurement Officer​
Recommendations​
The Chief Procurement Officer recommends that the Bid Award Panel grant authority to award the following contract:

Solicitation Number:
Request for Tender (RFT), Ariba Doc Number 2487291193

Description:
Ariba Doc Number 2487291193 (4-2020), to complete interior renovations for a new Corporate Security Office at Union Station to facilitate the relocation of the existing security office.

Recommended Supplier:
ROSSCLAIR Contractors Inc.

Contract Award Value:
$1,263,675 net of all applicable taxes and charges
$1,427,953 including HST and all applicable charges
$1,285,916 net of HST recoveries

Contract is expected to start on date of award and end on July 02, 202​
Click to expand...

I wonder if it will be out of sight somewhere in one of the upper floors?

Previously it was in the arrivals corridor next to Track 3 and then in the Great Hall where the new Bay Concourse access is. Most commercial centres, hotels, etc have a security office that is out of sight and I can't see Union Station being any different.

By creating an office somewhere out of sight they can turn it into an emergency command post in the event we have another hostage taking for example.
 
Richard White said:
I wonder if it will be out of sight somewhere in one of the upper floors?

Previously it was in the arrivals corridor next to Track 3 and then in the Great Hall where the new Bay Concourse access is. Most commercial centres, hotels, etc have a security office that is out of sight and I can't see Union Station being any different.

By creating an office somewhere out of sight they can turn it into an emergency command post in the event we have another hostage taking for example.
Click to expand...
There is some advantage in having it in a high-traffic area (as the current temporary one is) so that people can go to a staffed window to make enquiries or report problems. It can have a secure "command centre' in the rear.
 
DSC said:
There is some advantage in having it in a high-traffic area (as the current temporary one is) so that people can go to a staffed window to make enquiries or report problems. It can have a secure "command centre' in the rear.
Click to expand...

An information desk would be more suitable for inquiries as it lets security do what they are hired to do which is be the eyes and ears keeping things secure. As someone who did security for years the overall guiding philosophy is to observe and report.

Customer service is part of it but in a facility like Union Station where there is a need for vigilance the customer service side should be left to an info desk. Security should be left to keep their eyes and ears open for potential threats not answer questions about how to get to Scotiabank Arena or the Waterfront.

As for reporting problems, there are plenty of security guards wandering around the station if there is a problem they can be flagged down to deal with it. I remember once being prevented from leaving the arcade by a homeless person looking for money. I managed to push past him and flagged down security standing in the arrivals area.

As I said if someone wants to know how to go to the waterfront or the area there should be a staffed information booth at peak hours.
 
Mercenary said:
The Union Station Renovation cost 800 million while New York spent 1.6 billion or double.

If you spend double, you are going to get a better quality result. This Moynihan Train Hall was done on budget and on time. It's also very inspirational and has a wow factor. Union Station Renovation lacks the wow factor.

I love taking the Maple Leaf Train to New York city.

I am eagerly looking forward to taking it again since once the pandemic is over and checking out Moynihan Train Hall.
Click to expand...
Moynihan was also done on separate land (it's an extension not a renovation). The original Penn station still sits below MSG. Meaning it's an irrelevant comparison because Union is renovating the existing, still in-use station whereas the Penn addition had the majority of the work done in places that was not seeing any traffic from commuters.
 
Moynihan is "just barely" over a tiny portion of Penn's tracks. But it will be nice for Amtrak passengers, mostly, while making some surplus space available to allow for some incremental upgrades to other parts of Penn.
 
Mercenary said:
The Union Station Renovation cost 800 million while New York spent 1.6 billion or double.

If you spend double, you are going to get a better quality result. This Moynihan Train Hall was done on budget and on time. It's also very inspirational and has a wow factor. Union Station Renovation lacks the wow factor.
Click to expand...
Toronto will get another kick at the can when the new rail station on the old Lever factory site is realized. It's a blank slate so hopefully we get something comparable to Penn Station/Moynihan Train Hall.
 
isaidso said:
Toronto will get another kick at the can when the new rail station on the old Lever factory site is realized. It's a blank slate so hopefully we get something comparable to Penn Station/Moynihan Train Hall.
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Yeah - I dunno. Think about how many times the design and expense of the YSE stations are brought up. Also, look at the design of Woodbine GO. I think we should expect something like that, as opposed to something awe-inspiring.
 
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