Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[Tuscani01]

You'd think there'd be one at the Eaton Centre or in PATH, but there isn't.

They opened one at Toronto Life Square/Metropolis/10 Dundas, but it only lasted a year. It's so bad for you, but so good!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Pretty happy to report the afternoon crowd seem to have handled the closure well. Not nearly enough Presto terminals though.

AoD

 

[khris]

According to their website, they're not coming back for a while

Update: Our Union Station Toronto bakery location will permanently close August 13th, 2015
Due to redevelopment of the Union Station property.

http://cinnabon.homestead.com/BakeryLocations.html

Noooo I am gonna write them. It's ridiculous that there isn't one downtown.

 

[Kitsune]

.. one thing I noticed is that normally semi-quiet spotted crowds on York St is now jammed with people almost all the way between Queen and Union. Has Bay St suddenly emptied out a bit?

 

[tnarduzzi]

Hello UrbanToronto,
Longtime lurker, first time poster. Since signage at Union has been and is definitely an ongoing issue, let me share my knowledge on the matter:

So all the Line 1 signs say "northbound to Finch", but there's no "northbound to Downsview"?

I noticed this as well, back in August 2014... https://twitter.com/tnarduzzi/status/501422641799237632

It's probably that sign on the left behind the GO wayfinding. And if it is, that is ridiculous.

Goddamit TTC. It's like their signage people don't understand the concept of "decision point". It's a pretty integral concept when designing wayfinding.

Unfortunately it is not, there was never a "Northbound to Downsview". This was intentional and they just forgot to take it down... https://twitter.com/ttcdesign/status/598439067794206720

Indeed - the important thing at the concourse is to direct people to Line 1, not telling someone whether it goes to Finch or Downsview, do it at the subway station proper FFS.

I agree with you 100%. In fact I recommended to the TTC that they have a look at the TfL's London Underground Signs Manual. The LU Signs Manual outlines their EXCELLENT signage policy and it is actually a really good read if you are into this type of thing. You can find it here: https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/lu-signs-manual.pdf.

Long story short, this is how came in contact with Ian Dickson the Manager of Design & Wayfinding with the TTC. The good news is that according to Ian, the TTC does in fact have a "signage guidelines" or "manual"... https://twitter.com/ttcdesign/status/600368761229733888

Unfortunately I have not yet obtained a copy; however I have sent Ian an email on this topic as of today; I will update this thread with any information he can provide.

Cheers,
tnarduzzi

EDIT 1: Added date of original report to TTC, August 2014.
EDIT2: Minor edits for grammar and spelling.

 

[CDL.TO]

I'm curious to see what they send you. But what I have seen, calling the TTC's document a "manual" is being generous. Particularly when you compare it to the London example.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm curious to see what they send you. But what I have seen, calling the TTC's document a "manual" is being generous. Particularly when you compare it to the London example.

I wonder if there are there any clipart on it - never trust an organization on graphic design and signage when all their products so far looked like it was banged out from a 90s version of MS Publisher. Excellence in that area is not yet in their DNA.

AoD

 

[tnarduzzi]

Does anybody know when the north moat is expected to open to the public? Are there any official dates?

While taking pictures in the deserted Bay Concourse this morning I was chatting with a few security guards (not GO, but City of Toronto), they indicated that an internal email had been sent around with a tentative date of September 9th. They stated that at this time the Bay Concourse will be completely vacated by all tenants (GO included) and turned over to the City of Toronto. Also at this time the renovated Union Station loading docks will re-open for use. One of the guards said he has been a part of discussion about keeping a hoarding (or other passage) open through the Bay Concourse to connect the TTC with the Blue Route as renovations take place. This is obviously in anticipation of event related "crush loads". However all said and done, he admitted that closure plans are very fluid at this point and changing daily right now. All of this must be considered hearsay.

In any event, I really hope that the north moat tunnel is open to the public before the Bay hoarding (the limited/temporary access passage through the closed Bay Concourse) closes. Assuming they can get the north moat tunnel open before the Bay hoarding closes, this would take care of direct TTC/PATH/GO transfers in a simple unified fashion. Additionally if I am not mistaken this route would be fully accessible.

As it stands, if the Bay hoarding is closed before the north moat tunnel opens this will create the "mother of all bottlenecks" at the Bay north diversion. The Bay north diversion is currently the only alternative connection between Union and the TTC/PATH right now. This is a very narrow hallway with only two sets of double doors and three very narrow stairs. Yikes!

Pictures of closed Bay Concourse, August 18th, 2015:

Looking south-east from Cinnabon.

Looking north-east from Cinnabon.

Looking north-east from in front of Gateway news. Both sets of doors from the Bay Concourse to the north moat (TTC) remain open at this point.

This tiny and confusing signage is all that greets people entering Bay Concourse from the north moat (TTC). No explanation as to what is going on. Just tiny font and more arrows! Amazing job!

Looking west in the north moat towards the Bay north diversion and east portal. The tunnel to the York Concourse remains closed!

If the north moat tunnel remains closed when the Bay hoarding is closed, all TTC/PATH/GO transfers will be forced into this very narrow Bay north diversion. What a bottleneck!

More of the narrow Bay north diversion/bottleneck.

More of the narrow Bay north diversion/bottleneck.

A peek over the hoarding into the north moat tunnel.

The north moat tunnel is nearing completion. Lighting fixtures have been installed however are not yet active.

Close up of north moat lighting fixture.

North moat tunnel, west portal at York Concourse.

North moat tunnel, west portal at York Concourse.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

In any event, I really hope that the north moat tunnel is open to the public before the Bay hoarding (the limited/temporary access passage through the closed Bay Concourse) closes. Assuming they can get the north moat tunnel open before the Bay hoarding closes, this would take care of direct TTC/PATH/GO transfers in a simple unified fashion. Additionally if I am not mistaken this route would be fully accessible.

As it stands, if the Bay hoarding is closed before the north moat tunnel opens this will create the "mother of all bottlenecks" at the Bay north diversion. The Bay north diversion is currently the only alternative connection between Union and the TTC/PATH right now. This is a very narrow hallway with only two sets of double doors and three very narrow stairs. Yikes!

Thanks for the pics and info - greatly appreciated. You'd think that if the powers that be are actual users of the station they'd realize the importance of the North Moat link, and expedite that part of the project accordingly. Also, my understanding is that part of the moat will have a very industrial look - as if higher quality finshes is somehow a sin. At least we're going to get some art:

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2013/07/public-art-will-interact-passersby-union-station

AoD

 

[Le Gique]

Great pics of current situation, including the moat.

Just a reminder, for all our conjecturing about the next phases of construction, whenever you* imagine the Bay Concourse ramp and temporary corridor closing for full renos, then imagine you are going from the subway to the VIA Concourse or the Great Hall with two honking suitcases. You now know you shouldn't have packed two kinds of shampoo and conditioner, but you did.

Then walk (or roll) yourself through the route, turn by turn. First those five mini ramps in the subway, then on to VIA or your GO train.

How will you go, even when the centre moat opens? How would you give directions, if someone pushing their twins in a pram, asks you where the ticket booths are?

*Comments not directed at any poster in particular.

 

[Marcanadian]

Noooo I am gonna write them. It's ridiculous that there isn't one downtown.

RIP

 

[tnarduzzi]

Just a reminder, for all our conjecturing about the next phases of construction, whenever you* imagine the Bay Concourse ramp and temporary corridor closing for full renos, then imagine you are going from the subway to the VIA Concourse or the Great Hall with two honking suitcases. [...] Then walk (or roll) yourself through the route, turn by turn. First those five mini ramps in the subway, then on to VIA or your GO train.

How will you go, even when the centre moat opens? How would you give directions, if someone pushing their twins in a pram, asks you where the ticket booths are?

I will totally admit, until 2017 it's going to be quite confusing. I really do hope though, that once the north moat tunnel opens, things will get simplified with straight-through lines-of-sight. Hopefully one will be able to just wave an arm in the right direction and say 'that way'. Knowing the history here, this is wishful thinking...

Union Station, Concourse Level w. Bay Closed

 

[mdrejhon]

tnarduzzi, thanks for your contributions!

P.S. If you're willing, you can exercise FOIA (Freedom Of Information Access) to retrieve materials tax-payer funded organizations are reluctant to provide. Such as wayfinding manuals, etc. Sometimes you get information for free, other times they will give you a price quote for the employee/taxpayer cost of digging up & retrieving the information.

 

[tnarduzzi]

tnarduzzi, thanks for your contributions!

P.S. If you're willing, you can exercise FOIA (Freedom Of Information Access) to retrieve materials departments are reluctant to provide. Such as wayfinding manuals, etc. Sometimes you get information for free, other times they will give you a price quote for the employee/taxpayer cost of digging up & retrieving the information.

You are very welcome!

Good advice, I always forget that we the taxpayer have a right to view these. I hope that a FOIA won't be necessary here. The TTC's Ian Dickson volunteered to supply these documents, I simply failed to follow up until now. I will let you know what he says!

Cheers,

tnarduzzi

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Knowing the history here, this is wishful thinking...
Union Station, Concourse Level w. Bay Closed

Nice graphic. Is the Bay South concourse, in fact, closed? My understanding is it will remain open, providing access to platforms 24-27.