LNahid2000
Senior Member
You wanted to move on from this topic, yet you keep talking about it!
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
FNTS
Active Member
I agree with nfitz. I don't really care about her feelings, but I do care about the use of sexist language. Not cool.
Grimace
Active Member
Oh, leave the boy alone.
In other news, I'm surprised the ridership has only doubled. Keeps getting busier and busier.
In other news, I'm surprised the ridership has only doubled. Keeps getting busier and busier.
rbt
Senior Member
It's only doubled and many of those used to take the GO train. So actual revenue across the system is down quite a bit.
Looks better, thus far, if you don't think about the details. Ridership likely needs another doubling to get to break-even with the old pricing though. Metrolinx would never actually publish their financials in any detail so we'll never know just how subsidized any given route is.
Jonny5
Senior Member
I believe that data was a survey on day 1 of the new fares only.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
It seems to have slightly more than doubled by now, at least from my impressions. Everytime I walk by, there seems to be more than twice as usual people for the specific hour of the day of the week. Probably is still ramping up.
Didn't they say most were airport commuters? Not sure that is "quite a bit".
If airport commuters went up, say 75% airport and 25% commuters, then it's not a huge cannibalization of revenue.
I would presume that after a few more months, it'll have been a revenue-improving overall move, since Weston/Bloor just got 15-minute GO service (via UPX), which would increase GO ridership:
-- Lower Pearson prices: Increased airport ridership
-- Higher frequency GO service at Weston/Bloor: Increased commuter ridership
So ultimately, over the next few months, I doubt the revenues would have gone down anymore. I would guesstimate we need a 2.5x factor (6000-6500 per day) for system-wide Metrolinx revenue-neutrality of the merger of UPX-GO fares -- I believe only 0.5x more increase to cancel-out the GO ridership cannibalization with the equilibrium of increased commuters caused by lower fares (new revenue).
For keeping the GO RER momentum moving forward, one concern is how quickly Metrolinx can increase ridership of UPX to comfortably fill the trains even off-peak, without frustrating people with too many standees during peak. At 5 dollars, being a standee is far less frusrrating than a nearly-$30 fare. At least Pearson/Union are termini for airport travellers, so they are very likely to get seats (since lugging baggage at maximum fare, they appreciate first crack at the musical chairs with the seats).
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dowlingm
Senior Member
Haley had a job to do that couldn't be done, a legacy of the refusal to create this service from scratch rather than reskin the Blue 22. Even if she did everything perfectly, the combination of logistics, economics and board/ministerial politics would have led to the same result, but if she did her job better maybe this would have happened later this year.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Do more people use it than the TTC airport rocket yet?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
192 Airport Rocket had 4,000 daily riders in 2012. So yes, it has now exceeded the rocket. I have a feeling the 192's ridership has dropped since this opened too.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Yeah, one day does not a trend make. In all fairness to Metrolinx, they stated they'd release figures in (from memory) three months from the reboot. And they're right, albeit we have been deluded down this path before. My impression from trains passing is that they are notably more filled, as to the breakdown we'll have to see, let alone oversee the methodology used to discern who is a commuter and who is a flier. I think visual would be at least 80% accurate for that. The real question, as others have suggested, is how much it's at the expense of GO, but I suspect not as much as many presume. Don't forget that the "fare" isn't equal, just the *price* of the tariff between two stations and Union. The *value* of that ticket is radically different, as you can't then travel on to say, Mimico or Danforth on that fare, let alone farther zones for incremental increase.
The day UPX honours GO tickets is the day that train *really* starts filling.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
If you have a Presto card, you already can --
You can now tap Presto on a GO Presto reader, and bypass the UPX Presto reader, their fare inspecting process now allows/prefers regular GO taps for UPX rides.
Loyalty for registered Presto cards also applies to UPX now, giving you unlimited UPX rides after the 40th ride between your favourite non-Pearson destination pair.
I think they are reprogramming the GO ticket machines to let you select Pearson as a stop. I suspect it is more of an IT issue why they haven't done it yet.
D
Duck
Guest
Could I theoretically then buy a PRESTO card at the Kitchener GO station, put $25 on it, and ride to Weston, get off, (tap again?) and get on the UPX to Pearson all with that one card?
steveintoronto
Superstar
Duck: You beat me to asking exactly the same question. WOW! I've never seen this in print, and I've been looking. They can then also do away with the confusing number of Presto machines that for visitors, or old folks having senior moments just can't navigate. I wondered why Presto were royally ^&(%ing my account until an agent at Bloor came running out of the booth (I'd had her check my balance on her machine) to announce: "That's the balance checking machine, not the fare paying machine". Hey...I thought they were supposed to make this simple for people purposely taking the train so their minds could focus on things like saving the world, not wondering why the machines all look the same. Agent stated (and some now are painted yellow...duh!) "You see, the fine print tells you that yada, yada, yada". Those Metrolinx execs are right on the ball! Mind you, when you have a chauffeur, such details are merely for plebes...
I'm going to dig on that, because if now available, next trip, that's exactly what I'm going to do...just because I can!
I'm going to dig on that, because if now available, next trip, that's exactly what I'm going to do...just because I can!
steveintoronto
Superstar
TOareaFan
Superstar
Unless I misunderstand what you are asking, you could always do that. It is the same Presto card.....all that has changed is the fair now and the minor change that at Weston you do not have to tap special readers (like you used to) you can tap any of the Presto readers at weston.....but it was always the same card.
Not clear to me wether someone from KW (as your example) would tap of at weston then back on...or would simply tap on at KW...get off the GO train and then get on the UP and not tap off until Pearson.....but, yes, same Presto card.
I would check with them on the tapping sequence before doing it (the announcements on the KW GO line suggest to me that tapping off the GO then tapping back on to the UP would be required....but a quick email/tweet/call to them should sort that out).