Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

mdrejhon said:
Beginning May, the strong rumour is that Mt. Pleasant begins hourly all day two way service going all the way well into the evening. Watch for the twice annual timetable change.
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I think it's more than just a rumour, considering it was in Metrolinx's service increase rollout schedule.
 
mdrejhon said:
Beginning May, the strong rumour is that Mt. Pleasant begins hourly all day two way service going all the way well into the evening. Watch for the twice annual timetable change.
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There's an April timetable change and a June timetable change normally. I don't think there is normally a May one.

More than 2 changes a year, as there are ones in September and January.
 
dowlingm said:
How does that work for accessibility? Are there ramps to get to door height? My understanding was that UPX trains don't have traps
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It doesn't. The 3-car train that Drum saw departing earlier had just been changed out for a 2-car train.

mdrejhon said:
Beginning May, the strong rumour is that Mt. Pleasant begins hourly all day two way service going all the way well into the evening. Watch for the twice annual timetable change.
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There are no "twice annual timetable changes" - GO is now able to institute them at any time they feel necessary.

And as for the evening Mt Pleasant service, there doesn't seem to be any sign of them for the next while. I got my hands on a prototype/working schedule for June/July, and there was no indication of them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
mdrejhon said:
Beginning May, the strong rumour is that Mt. Pleasant begins hourly all day two way service going all the way well into the evening. Watch for the twice annual timetable change.
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Interesting, but I question how they're going to slot them against the outgoing rush-hour runs. Without having the timetable in front of me, for evening rush-hour I recollect an outgoing roughly every twenty minutes, plus a VIA in the mix, so if your supposition is correct, there's going to have to be greater utilization of the southern (western) tracks for inbound. And will they be doing all stops south of Malton?

And further to the supposition, which I certainly hope is true (it's inevitable, the question is when?), how many inbound platforms are going to be used? Is Bramalea's ready yet? And will Brampton use both platforms instead of just the one now?

I can see hourly inbound through the evening rush-hour from Bramalea, but not Mt Pleasant, albeit would be extremely happy to be proved otherwise. And how about morning rush-hour outbound? From experience of being on delayed outbounds getting on at Bloor mid-morning, it complicates exponentially as the single track running is no longer possible, and passing utilizes the predominantly UPX tracks. This will be interesting.
 
ShonTron said:
The April schedule changes are out. The only change to the Kitchener Corridor service is extra padding on the 11:00 departure from Mount Pleasant.
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Here's the linked statement Shon refers to as "padded":
[The schedule for the weekday eastbound 11 a.m. trip from Mount Pleasant will now show the arrival at Union Station to be six minutes later at 12 noon to better reflect the actual arrival time. Times at all stops along the route will remain the same.]

I had to read that a few times to make sure I had the gist correct. From memory, that run makes all stops. lol...so where was the need for "better reflect actual arrival time"? It has to be south of Bloor, and I have been on a few that have waited for more than a few minutes at around Queen St. One supposes delays moving rush-hour runs terminated at Union to other yards.
 
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steveintoronto said:
Here's the linked statement Shon refers to as "padded":
[The schedule for the weekday eastbound 11 a.m. trip from Mount Pleasant will now show the arrival at Union Station to be six minutes later at 12 noon to better reflect the actual arrival time. Times at all stops along the route will remain the same.]

I had to read that a few times to make sure I had the gist correct. From memory, that run makes all stops. lol...so where was the need for "better reflect actual arrival time"? It has to be south of Bloor, and I have been on a few that have waited for a few minutes at around Queen St. One supposes delays moving rush-hour runs terminated at Union to other yards.
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I think what they are saying is...."no matter what the old schedule said about 54 minutes, more often than not it took 1 hour. So the schedule now says 1 hour".
 
TOareaFan said:
I think what they are saying is...."no matter what the old schedule said about 54 minutes, more often than not it took 1 hour. So the schedule now says 1 hour".
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It's an interesting point. I now have the printed timetable in front of me, as much as I'm a tech, viewing timetables on-screen is always a task extra for me compared to reading them on actual paper.

Question: Why would it just be that one run affected? Ideas? I've noted for some time the oddity of the afternoon runs starting with the 15:00 train inbound from Mt Pleasant skipping stops between Malton and Union, and yet still scheduled for the same arrival time as the earlier stopping ones.

I also note the journey times for the runs prior to the now lengthened 11:00 Mt Pleasant departure run still remain 54 minutes. The 15:47 Mt Pleasant departure has a scheduled journey time of 47 minutes. That appears to be the fastest of them all, albeit also goes express between Malton and Union.

I have a number of possibilities as to why the variance, but can anyone proffer some exact reasons?
 
steveintoronto said:
It's an interesting point. I now have the printed timetable in front of me, as much as I'm a tech, viewing timetables on-screen is always a task extra for me compared to reading them on actual paper.

Question: Why would it just be that one run affected? Ideas? I've noted for some time the oddity of the afternoon runs starting with the 15:00 train inbound from Mt Pleasant skipping stops between Malton and Union, and yet still scheduled for the same arrival time as the earlier stopping ones.

I also note the journey times for the runs prior to the now lengthened 11:00 Mt Pleasant departure run still remain 54 minutes. The 15:47 Mt Pleasant departure has a scheduled journey time of 47 minutes. That appears to be the fastest of them all, albeit also goes express between Malton and Union.

I have a number of possibilities as to why the variance, but can anyone proffer some exact reasons?
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There are two VIA trains, an inbound and outbound at shortly to 11am, that can and do cause interference with that trip (and to a lesser degree, the outbound 10.48 train). The outbound train seems to be able to make up most of that time because there is a LOT of padding from Malton to Mt Pleasant, although the inbound doesn't seem to have that same ability.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
This discussion would be better located in the GO Transit Service thread:

steveintoronto said:
Interesting, but I question how they're going to slot them against the outgoing rush-hour runs. Without having the timetable in front of me, for evening rush-hour I recollect an outgoing roughly every twenty minutes, plus a VIA in the mix, so if your supposition is correct, there's going to have to be greater utilization of the southern (western) tracks for inbound. And will they be doing all stops south of Malton?
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They definitely won't be doing all stops south of Malton, because Etobicoke North only has platform access from the eastern (predominantly GO) track. I think that's fine, since it (and Malton) are little more than park-and-ride stations for downtown: they don't really need counter-peak service.

I can see hourly inbound through the evening rush-hour from Bramalea, but not Mt Pleasant, albeit would be extremely happy to be proved otherwise. And how about morning rush-hour outbound? From experience of being on delayed outbounds getting on at Bloor mid-morning, it complicates exponentially as the single track running is no longer possible, and passing utilizes the predominantly UPX tracks. This will be interesting.
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There is some possibility for a single morning counter-peak run, which already exists but is operated out-of-service. The first off-peak eastbound run is deadheaded from downtown (don't know from where: Willowbrook or Union?), and sits near Bramalea waiting for the last eastbound train from Kitchener passes by before proceeding the rest of the way. That way GO's off-peak service only ever occupies the south track in the CN portion, and there is no crossing conflict with CN freights.

There is just enough time for a run to be scheduled in service in a similar fashion, operating on the centre track and meeting the Kitchener run in Bramalea. It would skip Etobicoke North and Malton as per above, departing Union around 8:05, arriving at Bramalea around 8:37 (a couple minutes after the Kitchener train passes through) and finally arriving at Mount Pleasant around 8:52 (8 minutes before departing eastbound). The main challenge is that the 8 minute layover doesn't leave much margin of error to protect against the eastbound Kitchener train being late (in which case one of them would need to use the north CN track or be delayed).

Alternatively, the train could leave Union earlier and run in service only as far as Bramalea, then wait there and deadhead as per currently, or perhaps the train could skip Brampton station to save a couple minutes.

steveintoronto said:
Question: Why would it just be that one run affected? Ideas? I've noted for some time the oddity of the afternoon runs starting with the 15:00 train inbound from Mt Pleasant skipping stops between Malton and Union, and yet still scheduled for the same arrival time as the earlier stopping ones.
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I assume that the reason that first afternoon express skips stops without having a shorter travel time was that some GO platforms on the predominantly UP tracks were incomplete and would be added. That way as soon as Bloor and Weston station platforms were/are completed, the train could start serving them without changing the schedule.
 
reaperexpress said:
This discussion would be better located in the GO Transit Service thread:
[...]
I assume that the reason that first afternoon express skips stops without having a shorter travel time was that some GO platforms on the predominantly UP tracks were incomplete and would be added. That way as soon as Bloor and Weston station platforms were/are completed, the train could start serving them without changing the schedule.
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I have to digress on aspects being service related, I'm still exploring which forums are most apt, but with the merging now of UPX and the Georgetown corridor as that pertains to GO, it becomes infrastructure available to support the services discussed. I'll be brief in this posting to see if there's a more opportune forum to move it to.
[I assume that the reason that first afternoon express skips stops without having a shorter travel time was that some GO platforms on the predominantly UP tracks were incomplete and would be added. That way as soon as Bloor and Weston station platforms were/are completed, the train could start serving them without changing the schedule.]
And that may not be the specifics, but certainly the gist of where the discussion is headed: UPX is going to have to surrender the de-facto assigned trackage south of the Airport Spur, and another track added from Airport Spur to Bramalea (for the immediate future) to support all-day service from Mt Pleasant south. And this should be a priority for Metrolinx for a number of reasons, not the least saving face for the massive bungle of catering to the elitist airport run. This is deserving of much more discussion, and forgive me if this is still not the most apt forum, and someone link me to a better one!

Trying to navigate the forum index is trial and error as much as descriptive title. I have no idea of the significance of [?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited |]
 
steveintoronto said:
I have to digress on aspects being service related, I'm still exploring which forums are most apt, but with the merging now of UPX and the Georgetown corridor as that pertains to GO, it becomes infrastructure available to support the services discussed.
[...]
This is deserving of much more discussion, and forgive me if this is still not the most apt forum, and someone link me to a better one!

Trying to navigate the forum index is trial and error as much as descriptive title. I have no idea of the significance of [?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited |]
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No worries, that comment wasn't actually directed at you (which is why I put it before I quoted your post), but rather at any potential moderator who is considering moving these posts into the appropriate thread (which is here, by the way). I did not mean to imply that your comments were inappropriate or anything like that. As you mention, UP Express and the GO Kitchener line are increasingly interrelated.

The weird thread titles are one of the unfortunate side-effects of UrbanToronto's move to a standardized 'SkyriseCities' forum structure. It's a result of trying to pigeonhole threads about transportation projects into a template designed for condo projects.

UPX is going to have to surrender the de-facto assigned trackage south of the Airport Spur, and another track added from Airport Spur to Bramalea (for the immediate future) to support all-day service from Mt Pleasant south. And this should be a priority for Metrolinx for a number of reasons, not the least saving face for the massive bungle of catering to the elitist airport run.
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Yeah, UP definitely has to share the two western tracks. But that's not really a big deal because they only run 4 trains per hour, and because it's already not exclusive. As we mentioned, the last couple eastbound off-peak Kitchener trains already use those tracks, and so does the morning eastbound VIA train.

Do we need another track from Pearson Junction to Bramalea? There are already 3 tracks: 2 for GO and 1 for CN which continues eastbound onto the York Subdivision.
 
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Thanks Reaper! I was thinking: 'This is good discussion'. Trying to thread many of the schedules we're discussing on a single track (and some take me to issue on that being the case, but *virtually* it is single track, with some sections allowing passing loops on the predominantly UPX reserved track) is going to be a nightmare in the offing. One late train is going to play havoc with both directions.

Is it not time to share all three tracks until the fourth is available? At least share the middle track. The almighty chosen elite of airport travellers must also be part of sharing the congestion until the fourth track is up and running. And in fact, is three track running enough to handle both GO and UPX anyway? Obviously it isn't anywhere near as good as four tracks, but to get the Weston corridor handling two way all-day...it should certainly go a long way to making that possible. Perhaps more must be invested in signalling, switching and even PTC to support it?

[Do we need another track from Pearson Junction to Bramalea? There are already 3 tracks: 2 for GO and 1 for CN which continues eastbound onto the York Subdivision.]

I thought not, but got into a rather unpleasant bust-up with a regular poster in another forum that shall remain nameless. I read back extensively on the same 'know-it-all's' posts, only to find he completely contradicted himself on the matter, reposted that, and some other glaring inconsistencies, and got banned from the forum with the host accusing me of "gratuitous insults".

Same poster claimed not only were there not enough tracks into Bramalea, but the sharing with freight rendered all-day service impossible. There's a lot more to it than that, much had to do with my promoting the European use of 'Tram Trains', and again, same author completely contradicted himself from older posts, which I've saved.

So do any others have views of the now available tracks into Bramalea and how problematic or not starting all-day service in the short-term would be? Shortage of suitable stock pre-electrification is an immediate problem, but all the more reason Metrolinx should get off their padded arses and look to lease and/or buy some DMUs to allow that. After electrification, same units could be cascaded to the outer unelectrified branches. DEMUs could be considered if they are being purchased.

The present UPX Sharyos will be double the price over original to order in, I've done extensive digging on that. Metrolinx state next to nothing on it, SMART have all sorts of references, as does the local press there. Metrolinx paid way too much!

Compared to what I've seen elsewhere in the world, that Weston corridor is still grossly under-utilized. Looking forward to more discussion on this, and maybe even a renaming and streaming of the forum subjects?
 
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