Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

nfitz said:
And there is also the issue of capital exenditures, when to spend it, and what else to spend it on.
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DavidH said:
Not to mention a provincial government that has plunged deep into deficit due to reduced tax revenues. In the real world, immediate electrification at a $1.5B cost would mean $1.5B taken out of other things. Where would we remove it from? Other transit? Schools? Hospitals?
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RedRocket191 said:
Blasphemy! The pot is unlimited, dontchaknow! They can surely find infinity billion dollars for this and that! :D

Sorry, couldn't resist...
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well if they really wanted to make good use of money, they shouldn't build the UPRL in its current form. the fact that they're building an express train to the airport for the business class (at a fare that will price out regular folks from regular usage) shows at the very least that maybe money is not a big concern.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
well if they really wanted to make good use of money, they shouldn't build the UPRL in its current form. the fact that they're building an express train to the airport for the business class (at a fare that will price out regular folks from regular usage) shows at the very least that maybe money is not a big concern.
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Is it at all possible that there is a market for that type of service? We wouldn't want to spend money on projects that would be successfull would we...
 
What seems to be forgotten is that the rail link will be operated by a private company. If it doesn't make money, it won't last. That's what a lot of people seem to be hoping for, but I wouldn't count on it. People said the same stuff about Porter.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Is it at all possible that there is a market for that type of service? We wouldn't want to spend money on projects that would be successfull would we...
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of course there's a market but i don't think it will be profitable one.

lets compare the airport limo to the rail link:

airport limo: takes you from the airport to your final destination in a private environment. you might waste time in traffic

rail link: takes you from the airport to union station. once at union station you must either walk, take a taxi or take the TTC to your final destination. you will definitely waste time changing modes of transportation.

now which do you think a business class traveler will prefer?

a few years back they released ridership projections and by their very projections, those numbers weren't good. but aside from that, that is just a minor issue compared to the bigger issue which is that this rail corridor could have been put to better use. aside from the ridership generated when this service opens for business which i will attribute to novelty (because it's new), i don't think this service will be sustainable.

the best usage in this corridor was to have electric trains running at near subway frequencies stopping at many stops along the way with express trains during rush hours. there will be 4 tracks to operate on and with proper switching it can work. also, express train fares would be at GO transit rates and regular trains would be at TTC rates.
 
unimaginative2 said:
What seems to be forgotten is that the rail link will be operated by a private company. If it doesn't make money, it won't last. That's what a lot of people seem to be hoping for, but I wouldn't count on it. People said the same stuff about Porter.
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will they have exclusive rights to the tracks? this was the case before. i think it was for 99 years. is this still in effect?
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
well if they really wanted to make good use of money, they shouldn't build the UPRL in its current form. the fact that they're building an express train to the airport for the business class (at a fare that will price out regular folks from regular usage) shows at the very least that maybe money is not a big concern.
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Oh come on ... how much money is that? Virtually all the upgrades are applicable to both VIA and GO service as well; apart from the rail link right into the airport, and some platform changes at Union. You couldn't extend a subway line for more than one station for that cost.
 
nfitz said:
Oh come on ... how much money is that? Virtually all the upgrades are applicable to both VIA and GO service as well; apart from the rail link right into the airport, and some platform changes at Union. You couldn't extend a subway line for more than one station for that cost.
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what matters is how that money could have been better used and benefited more people and i explained how. i'm not complaining about bridge widening and track laying.
 
nfitz said:
Oh come on ... how much money is that? Virtually all the upgrades are applicable to both VIA and GO service as well; apart from the rail link right into the airport, and some platform changes at Union.
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Exactly. And Lavalin will be paying for the new track to the airport itself.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
what matters is how that money could have been better used and benefited more people and i explained how. i'm not complaining about bridge widening and track laying.
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I am not following your point.....isn't all of the work that they are doing necessary for the increased GO and Via services? If so, all that happened because of Blue 22 (or whatever it ends up being called) is an accelaration (kinda funny calling it that considering how long it has actually been needed) of the increased capacity on the line.

As someone else pointed out, the one additional piece of infrastructure spend to accomodate the rail link is the actual link from the corridor to the terminals.....which is being paid for by SNC.....

.....so are you suggesting that expanding this corridor and increasing GO and Via service is a bad spend? If not, then the money (or substantially all of it anyway) would have been spent anway....no?
 
TOareaFan said:
I am not following your point.....isn't all of the work that they are doing necessary for the increased GO and Via services? If so, all that happened because of Blue 22 (or whatever it ends up being called) is an accelaration (kinda funny calling it that considering how long it has actually been needed) of the increased capacity on the line.

As someone else pointed out, the one additional piece of infrastructure spend to accomodate the rail link is the actual link from the corridor to the terminals.....which is being paid for by SNC.....

.....so are you suggesting that expanding this corridor and increasing GO and Via service is a bad spend? If not, then the money (or substantially all of it anyway) would have been spent anway....no?
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the air rail link and GO/via expansion are supposed to be two different projects. GO expansion should not depend on the air rail link in any way. this was the reason for separate EAs. by beef is not against expansion.

i'll be somewhat happy if the only infrastructure that the air rail link will own is the spur to the airport and if their lease of the tracks down the corridor to union is something that has to be renewed every few years.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
the air rail link and GO/via expansion are supposed to be two different projects. GO expansion should not depend on the air rail link in any way. this was the reason for separate EAs. by beef is not against expansion.

i'll be somewhat happy if the only infrastructure that the air rail link will own is the spur to the airport and if their lease of the tracks down the corridor to union is something that has to be renewed every few years.
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They do not have exclusive use of the tracks down to union. At Weston, for example, there will be four georgetown corridor tracks - 2 express tracks for GO Express, VIA and ARL, and two for local trains.
 
On the subject of transit going to YYZ, what is this garbage?

TTC airport shuttle buses are now taking a modified route that riders say adds about 15 minutes to their trip, a change that senior officials neither knew of nor approved.

The buses, which ordinarily take Highway 427 to Pearson International Airport after leaving the Kipling subway station, have instead snaked through residential roads since Sept. 26.

Local TTC drivers said highway speeds combined with standing passengers with luggage made the route unsafe.

The change has sparked complaints from some customers, who say the 15-minute ride has now doubled.
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What kind of idiot is responsible for this? Leave it to them to take a semi-decent service and totally screw it up.
 
The kind of people which would have the Eglinton LRT take the least direct route to the airport so as not to interfere with Mississauga BRT plans that dump buses onto the 427 rather than extending the busway all the way to Kipling via the hydro corridor. Current transit planning in this city is done haphazardly. The only hope is to have Metrolinx takeover the GTA transit agencies and throw out the politically planned projects which are being worked on that don't fit into a real clean slate Metrolinx master plan.
 
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