Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[smallspy]

On a tangent, is it the equipment, infrastructure or just plain management that leads to the constant issues?

The answer to this question is "yes". All three are thoroughly to blame for appearance of the problems on the line.

Although in fairness, problems may not be an appropriate word to use as the vast, vast majority of the time the issues that do arise are so negligible as to have virtually no outward appearance on the daily service. It's kind of like having a single subway train have an issue - the people on that one train will recognize that there's a problem, but the rest of the time things are going tickity-boo.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112755762403729408

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Isn't this the real newsworthy item?

creating a re-introduced gap of >$1 between UP and GO fares from stations like Bloor or Weston and Union will bring those people back off of the UP trains and onto the already overcrowded GO trains!

No it wouldn't, as the GO Presto fare would stay the same, only the UPX fares would change:

The proposed fare changes wouldn’t apply to the Union Pearson Express.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...t-fares-on-short-go-transit-trips-to-370.html

If you're riding UPX on a GO fare, the system sees no difference. It's only those using the UPX fare system. (The only one possible at present to the Airport proper, not the other three stations on the line)

 

[nfitz]

If you're riding UPX on a GO fare, the system sees no difference. It's only those using the UPX fare system. (The only one possible at present to the Airport proper, not the other three stations on the line)

I'd assume that unless they want to completely overwhelm the limited capacity of the UP Express in peak, that they'd just go back to the old method, of using the silver machines only for all UP traffic, to make sure you are getting charged UP fares.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Old practice? There are still two machines at Union/Bloor/Weston? Also, I think they've covered them with a plastic blue to make them standout more compared to the silver.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Agreed with @Allandale25 but I take it a big step further: I detect a spring in Verster's step! "Overwhelm"? That's already the case for afternoon peak at Union. Those with airport tickets board first from a separate lineup. Then the 'plebes' board.

If that run becomes "overwhelmed" it gives Verster a magnificent case to say: "Look at the demand! We need to expand this service.".

And frankly, if that does become the case, and make no mistake, I'm not for totally privatizing, but UPX would become a gem to sell to investors, as it was always intended to be. Part of that sale contract would be to increase service, perhaps even electrify it. As @crs1026 stated in one of these strings a week or so ago, and linked the reference to it, that corridor was EA approved over a decade ago for electrification! A sale would be absolute music to the three ears of the Fedelli/Ford duo. (sic)

Something larger and interesting might be happening behind closed doors on this...And if I were Verster, I'd be much, much happier dealing with real business people rather than the QP porkies.

Edit to Add: Telling comment from the Globe:

[...]
The move is part of Metrolinx’s effort to transform GO Transit from a purely commuter service to one that serves local trips as well.

“What we are seeing is that there’s a whole market segment of short-distance travellers that we are not fully hooking into our service,” Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster said Monday. He cited internal modeling that he said showed the move is expected to generate an additional two million rides annually.
[...]
However, the new GO fare would be 60 cents higher than the current TTC fare, which rose by a dime on Monday to $3.10. And by restricting it to sub-10-kilometre trips, the lower fare will not cover those heading into downtown from much of the city. Although the formula will be tweaked to allow for $3.70 fares on trips between Union Station and Mimico or Scarborough stations, both of which are longer than 10 kilometres, two of the six planned GO stations in Mr. Tory’s SmartTrack plan are too far from Union Station.

It’s unclear what effect this would have on ridership demand at the GO stations deemed part of the SmartTrack plan. Earlier modelling had showed that passenger demand was price-sensitive and was highest when the service was priced at a TTC fare.

In a statement relayed by his spokesman, Mr. Tory called the fare announcement a “step in the right direction” and said he remains “committed to continuing this progress so that fare parity will be in place for SmartTrack.”

Mr. Verster said that the focus should not be exclusively on commuters heading into the city’s core. He argued that there was great potential demand for people making shorter trips throughout the GO network.

“Wherever you get on, you get a benefit,” he said. “No matter where you are, [the 10-kilometre fare] is within that radius of what you are travelling. So this is … about more than just the comparison with SmartTrack.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...s-to-decrease-but-falls-short-of-smart-track/

 

[nfitz]

^ Old practice? There are still two machines at Union/Bloor/Weston?

As far as I know there's still two machines. They could easily remove the green machine at the Union UPE station and make everyone who rides UP tap on silver (or blue, or whatever).

I assume that day 1 (old practice) that if you were riding from Union to Bloor you tapped on silver ... how else did they enforce the $11.40 fare with Presto from Bloor to Union and $15.20 from Weston to Union?

Though in that period, I only rode Union or Bloor to Pearson, so I only ever used silver.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Sorry, that's what I was trying to question. You mentioned earlier going "back to the old method" but I was noting that I think that's still the current method.

 

[steveintoronto]

how else did they enforce the $11.40 fare with Presto from Bloor to Union and $15.20 from Weston to Union?

They check every passenger's proof of payment. In the years I've been riding it between Bloor and Union, only twice has it never been checked, and that was during crush hour. There were more people standing than sitting.

 

[nfitz]

They check every passenger's proof of payment. In the years I've been riding it between Bloor and Union, only twice has it never been checked, and that was during crush hour. There were more people standing than sitting.

I meant how they did the fares between these stations ... you were supposed to tap on silver I mean.

I wasn't referring to on-train ticket checks.

^ Sorry, that's what I was trying to question. You mentioned earlier going "back to the old method" but I was noting that I think that's still the current method.

I never did it back then ... are you saying that you used to tap on Green when travelling between station pairs that didn't include Pearson, back in 2015-2016? How did they charge the UP fare instead of the GO fare then?

 

[Allandale25]

^ Thanks for clarifying. I think we're on the same page. I think there was only one machine when the service opened, so you're right. Apologies for any confusion.

 

[nfitz]

^ Thanks for clarifying. I think we're on the same page. I think there was only one machine when the service opened, so you're right. Apologies for any confusion.

Though now I'm wondering too ... I can't remember! That would certainly make it simpler for tourists if there was nothing green to tap on at the UPE Union station!

 

[steveintoronto]

Cross posted from the Relief Line South string:
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-relief-line-south-in-design.6155/page-766#post-1435403

jje1000 said:

I have a feeling they still want to return it (UPX) to being a more 'premium class' express at some point later on, or at least something that remains separate from RER, rather than it remaining the RER-lite service it is at the moment.

There's a number of scenarios, that's one and it made more sense up until now. I think that may have been the thinking when Wynne put a starting pistol to their heads for the CanAm Games and made them jump the plank. It was a disaster in terms of ridership however. We know and accept that being the case, but when the division CEO really was shot a few years back, why did they never fold the entire division into GO? It's beyond conspicuous, and the remaining parallel but distinct fare systems defies rational belief. There had to be some kind of rationale at work.

This new stance from Metrolinx heralds a real change of approach, and let me take your point one step further: By allowing for a return to 'premium service'...it even furthers the case for privatizing if! passenger numbers can be maintained. But there's catch 23 (22 with inflation added): Remove that fare equity with GO, and the ridership plummets again.

An answer for that is for UPX to return to being 'an airport premium service'...and private (allowing it to be outside the Metrolinx Act) but the physical operation folded into a greater UPX, one which has added three or four car high-platform trains to run to Bramalea to capture that "overwhelming demand" as some have called it, and Verster refers to, as the first leg of an RER Bramalea/Union or beyond. It won't be the RER touted by Metrolinx in the past, but it could be up and running in a couple of years. There's ample headway between the 15 mins that UPX now run on their present pathings to the airport. With the added 'Bramalea service' even a 7.5 min headway between airport trains is large by today's signalling standards. That airport service can remain (perhaps with only two car trains since demand will be lessened, and thus stock will last longer and be more flexible) and continue to run into the dedicated UPX station at Union, the added 'RER light' would run into a platform at Union proper, albeit with a high platform, and use DEMU/EMU stock that can run on both, thus enabling the more 'true' RER EMUs to run the service later. High level platform(s) would also be added to the most southerly platform at Bramalea and any stops between there and Weston.

The only service that would be privatized is the Airport service, and that would justify leaving the 'UPX only' stalks in situ for that service.

Edit to Add: As per GO's historical overpricing of local fares, here's an excellent piece by @ShonTron :
Not so fair-by-distance: GO Transit’s problematic fare system

 

[torontocolin]

AMA has confirmed that they'll go back to the old system: UPX riders all use the silver tap points, GO riders use the green. The claim is that they don't want to overwhelm UPX trains with non-airport riders. I understand that, and the Bloor-Union fare (presumably) remains fairly reasonable, but switching the system back after all this time seems user hostile. Not to mention that if they recognize that the demand is super-high among a customer base which they are now explicitly targeting, perhaps they could consider, y'know, upping service levels to address that?

 

[steveintoronto]

AMA has confirmed that they'll go back to the old system:

Thumbs up, but the 'old' (original) system was silver stalks alone and prohibitively higher fares, thus:

By Tess KalinowskiTransportation reporter
Robert BenzieQueen's Park Bureau Chief
Tues., Feb. 23, 2016

Fares on the underused Union Pearson Express (UPX) train will as of March 9 be cut by more than half — down to $9 from $19 with a Presto card, or to $12 from $27.50 without one.
Also, in a bid to fill empty seats, commuters hopping aboard the airport train at Bloor and Weston stations will pay the same as GO riders — $4.71 for a single stop, $5.02 for two stops.
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/02/23/upx-to-slash-fare-by-more-than-half.html

Not clear in the wording "commuters hopping aboard the airport train at Bloor and Weston stations will pay the same as GO riders" is 'between and to and from Union'. If you are headed to the airport, the only option is to use the UPX stalks if you are using Presto.