Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[TOareaFan]

My question is why haven’t they laid at least one more track between the Parkdale junction (Barrie Line split) and USRC? With UPX, Kitchener, Barrie and Milton services, wouldn’t extra track give the room for more daily/frequent service?

For a time there were some projects that were literally in the way - eg the Dufferin underpass. As things currently stand, it’s not a dealbreaker for either line because there are other pinch points that remain that prevent added service.
- Paul

Yeah, on Kitchenere, I guess, they could get more service to the 401 and once the tunnel there is complete they can get more service to Malton....shame, however, the majority of the customers are west of Malton at the 3 stations in Brampton

 

[Streety McCarface]

Random question: given the fact that the UPX will be electrified hopefully within 6 years, that means the trains will have been used for about 10 years. With such a short lifespan, what could the be used for next? Potentially the service extension to Niagara or Bowmanville? Local service on the Kitchener Line between Kitchener and Georgetown?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

With such a short lifespan, what could the be used for next? Potentially the service extension to Niagara or Bowmanville? Local service on the Kitchener Line between Kitchener and Georgetown?

Although I tend to think they'll most likely wind up in Sonoma I'd say the North Main Line in some form is a good bet, though I lean toward thinking if anything like that goes ahead it will be London to some point between Kitchener and Mount Pleasant... Even handing them to VIA to be a tier above GO express and run the full length would make sense though, there are a lot of workable service patterns on this line.

 

[junctionist]

Random question: given the fact that the UPX will be electrified hopefully within 6 years, that means the trains will have been used for about 10 years. With such a short lifespan, what could the be used for next? Potentially the service extension to Niagara or Bowmanville? Local service on the Kitchener Line between Kitchener and Georgetown?

The trains are supposed to be convertible to electric propulsion. It's on page 5 of this document.

 

[Streety McCarface]

The trains are supposed to be convertible to electric propulsion. It's on page 5 of this document.

Although true, why would they when they have a perfectly working DMU available to use? Plenty of areas in the network could use it, it doesn't seem completely necessary given a future large purchase of electric rolling stock.

 

[dowlingm]

The trains are supposed to be convertible to electric propulsion. It's on page 5 of this document.

That may have been the intention but with Nippon Sharyo closing their Illinois facility it will have to be someone else doing the repower.

As far as reusing the trains elsewhere, don’t they require high platforms as they don’t have traps?

 

[smallspy]

Random question: given the fact that the UPX will be electrified hopefully within 6 years, that means the trains will have been used for about 10 years. With such a short lifespan, what could the be used for next? Potentially the service extension to Niagara or Bowmanville? Local service on the Kitchener Line between Kitchener and Georgetown?

A short lifespan, but very high mileage and hours of service. The equipment sees a rather harsh equipment cycle, with the average car in the fleet being required for 6 of 7 days and almost 20 hour days.

By the time they are 10 years old, it may not be a worthwhile investment for anyone to do anything with them beyond what they've already been doing. Rebuilding to electric or fitting with traps for low-platforms just simply may not be worth it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[micheal_can]

What about transferring them to Via and having them used in conjunction with the Budd cars?

 

[robmausser]

The trains are supposed to be convertible to electric propulsion. It's on page 5 of this document.

There was a posting a while ago that showed that Metrolinx had decided instead to buy entirely new vehicles.

Anyone able to pull that up?

 

[smallspy]

What about transferring them to Via and having them used in conjunction with the Budd cars?

They would still need to be modified to have traps installed to access the low-level platforms. I don't know how big an ask that is, as I don't know if the carbody and frame was designed for it.

And if the vehicles only have a couple of years of use left in them by the time UPX is done with them, it may not be worth it to VIA, or anyone else for that matter.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[steveintoronto]

The trains are supposed to be convertible to electric propulsion. It's on page 5 of this document.

lol...this claim was the height of absurdity. So can your car.

You'll note that the pages that displayed the steps to doing this have disappeared off of Metrolinx' websites. From your link (which is also no longer on ML websites)

Vehicles: UP Express operates on 18 Tier 4 “clean diesel” multiple units. They are the first of their kind in North America and conform to the strictest non-road engine emissions standard available – the Tier 4 standard set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. This technology reduces airborne particulate emissions by 90 per cent and nitrogen oxides by 80 per cent. The DMUs are also designed to be convertible to electric propulsion.

If they were DEMUs. it might be a lot easier, but they are driven mechanically, directly albeit through a fluid transmission (w/ torque converter that may have an overdrive that locks directly through it for no-loss xmssn) by a Cardan Shaft, that means that the bogies must be replaced, and almost all propulsive control systems.

The claim was purely to satisfy the false statement that the corridor was to be electrified. We're still waiting...

Ontario lost that contention at the Pan Am Games. Disqualified for failing the conversion event.

 

[steveintoronto]

What about transferring them to Via and having them used in conjunction with the Budd cars?

There's really only one sensible option for a future operator, and that's to combine the two extant fleets: Either SMART sells theirs to ML, or the other way around. No-one is now going to set-up shop to maintain and service them if they haven't already done so, and that leaves only two operators. There are slight variances in the models for each, but not enough to make servicing difficult with the limited number of spare parts available, albeit most of those parts came from Japan, the vehicles were only assembled in Illinois, not manufactured.

There's still a slight chance that operable models could be available from the main Japanese plant, albeit they're going to be pricey. I tried Googling a week back to find out more, it used to be up on the web, but I could find nothing. It may still be there, just not easy to find.

And since the Japanese models these are based on don't use Cummins engines, subbing Cummins into Japanese assembled models and some other North Am parts might mean recertifying those vehicles to meet regs. As it is, this DMU was the subject of more intense scrutiny from the FRA than any other vehicle of its type. (And the claim this vehicle is "unique" isn't correct, a number of other DMUs have come and gone over the years in North Am). It's "unique" in being the only one left standing beside the RDCs.

 

[steveintoronto]

As with many/most corridors, the limiting factor is the terminals - and specifically the one at Union.

That's a given, and in a possible scenario I've described a number of times is leaving the present Union terminal for airport runs, and either doing through-running at Union on the regular platforms for a 'Corridor' service to perhaps Unionville, or terminating at one of the regular platforms, and if needed, run through to an idle track on the east side before reversing to use a platform to go west again to not tie-up valuable platform space. For the northwest end, either continue up to Bramalea or do a loop into the airport separate from the present airport service to connect with the now much hyped future 'bus terminal' in the airport, allowing direct transfer from GO buses also calling there (#40 and others). This would greatly improve GO service from the northwest of Toronto.

For now, Bramalea looks like a very affordable option in the big scheme of things, and if a 15 min interval, it will mesh at 7.5 mins with the present UPX. Unfortunately it's not the RER promised, but it's a start. It would also allow the present limited 2W service to Mt Pleasant to run express to Union from Bramalea adding further flexibility to the corridor since the handicap the DDs would have sharing tracks is acceleration and deceleration. Ostensibly sharing pathings with the DDs shouldn't be necessary, but Murphy's Law indicates doing so at some times might be necessary.

Sure it's a case of 'making dinner from leftovers, plus buying some items'...but that should appeal to the Cons.

 

[robmausser]

lol...this claim was the height of absurdity. So can your car.

You'll note that the pages that displayed the steps to doing this have disappeared off of Metrolinx' websites. From your link (which is also no longer on ML websites)

If they were DEMUs. it might be a lot easier, but they are driven mechanically, directly albeit through a fluid transmission (w/ torque converter that may have an overdrive that locks directly through it for no-loss xmssn) by a Cardan Shaft, that means that the bogies must be replaced, and almost all propulsive control systems.

The claim was purely to satisfy the false statement that the corridor was to be electrified. We're still waiting...

Ontario lost that contention at the Pan Am Games. Disqualified for failing the conversion event.

Actually Steve, I heard that the UPX DMU's are 100% mechanical gear box. The SMART DMUS are fluid transmission.

For some reason, and again its buried on this sub and theres no good thread search tool on here, Metrolinx at the last minute insisted on the mechanical gear box. Which apparently has been giving them tons of issues.

 

[dowlingm]

There's really only one sensible option for a future operator, and that's to combine the two extant fleets: Either SMART sells theirs to ML, or the other way around. No-one is now going to set-up shop to maintain and service them if they haven't already done so, and that leaves only two operators. There are slight variances in the models for each, but not enough to make servicing difficult with the limited number of spare parts available, albeit most of those parts came from Japan, the vehicles were only assembled in Illinois, not manufactured.

How much "setting up shop" did VIA have to do to service these? With Cummins engines and ZF transmissions the needed parts list would be what - doors and so forth?

While SMART is probably in the lead, I still wouldn't rule out Portland WES as a destination for these, depending on the state of their seven Colorado Railcar and Budd DMUs. They might value being able to shift from their current mixed bag to 6-8 Nippons with SMART taking the rest for expansion.

Actually Steve, I heard that the UPX DMU's are 100% mechanical gear box. The SMART DMUS are fluid transmission.

For some reason, and again its buried on this sub and theres no good thread search tool on here, Metrolinx at the last minute insisted on the mechanical gear box. Which apparently has been giving them tons of issues.

The fuel savings are hard to ignore, it seems. MTU are partnering with Irish Rail on a hybrid powerpack and are also pushing ZF transmissions https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...ission-replacement-expected-to-save-fuel.html