TransitBart
Senior Member
@Megaton327, in contrast, I have never been on the train when I have not had my fare checked.
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
Megaton327
Senior Member
Every single one of my rides leaving Pearson, my fare was checked before Weston. Leaving Union, it was mostly checked at some point on the trip, but once or twice it wasn't. I've only boarded at Weston or Bloor maybe a half-dozen times in total, but I don't think my fare was checked on any of those occasions--doesn't seem that they do it when people board other than at Union or Pearson. Interesting policy.
KevinT
Active Member
My fare was checked when I rode Weston to the airport, mid-morning in August.
TOareaFan
Superstar
it is not a policy......during the summer I board regularly at Weston and am always checked (there was the one time I have mentioned before where it was so busy they just asked people to raise their hands if they boarded at Weston....so if I had wanted to avoid being checked I guess I could have left my hand down
)....it is totally dependent on how busy the train is and if the fare checker can get to everyone or not.jcam
Active Member
As a daily commuter on UPX from Weston AND a proponent of logical transit planning, I agree, it never made sense to have a stop. As a user, I love it for my commute. Since its already here, I agree there'd be cried of bloody murder if it's taken away. That said, I imagine that as soon as RER is in place with identical 15-minute service, they will absolutely drop the stop in favour of Mount Dennis. You might get some groans for people that travel Weston-Pearson now, but realistically they may add a Woodbine/Pearson Central stop on the Kitchener line by that time, in which case Weston people can transfer there to the airport.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
So network connectivity is more important than individual accessibility. Connecting different transit lines rather than having more stops.
muller877
Senior Member
I think jcam was saying that duplication of service when there is not enough demand to warrant it does not make sense. If there is duplication of the UPX service from Weston to Union with RER and there is not sufficient demand from Weston to Pearson then it makes sense for UPX to not stop at Weston.
Just look at numbers. If 10,000 people use UPX to Union and cutting Weston would save 1 minute, that's 10,000 minutes saved (6.9 days) per day. However, the 100 people per day that use Weston to get to Union will have to transfer trains adding 15 minutes to their commute. That costs them 1500 minutes (1.0 day).
jcam
Active Member
The 100/day would be people using Weston to get to Pearson. From what I see, 95% of the locals getting on or off at Weston are to/from Bloor/Union. RER covers that cohort.
For the balance that take Weston-Pearson, they'd have to take the 3 min trip to Mount Dennis, then switch to UP. All in all, that would probably add 15 minutes to the current UP trip Weston-Pearson (around 12 mins).
For me, if I'm travelling for work, I'd usually Uber to the airport and cab home....somewhat more expensive than UP, but ~15 min drive and no 10 minute walk to Weston station. I imagine other local airport travellers would make the same calculus.
Dropping UP would impact Weston airport employees who use it, but they might already take the Lawrence bus because of hours and cost.
micheal_can
Senior Member
For an express train, it should have as few stops as possible. A stop for Line 2, and a future Stop for Line 5 as well as Union and the Airport makes it serve the most connections, yet not be so overburdened with stops to slow it down.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Before UP launched and when it was still a system geared to be a, you know, Union - Pearson connection I was quite vocal that I thought Weston would cease being a stop when Crosstown opened and there was a station at Mt. Dennis. Given its proximity to the airport, and the fares on UP at the time, it did not seem logical to have a stop so close to the airport that did not have another reason for being (ie. a connection with another rapid transit line).
With the fare reduction, though, Weston has taken on another purpose.....there has been a very clear change noticeable when riding GO trains on the Kitchener line. Weston station has become an almost pointless stop. The volumes of people getting on and off at the station has shrunk to near zero. The travelling/commuting consumer has done what you would expect any logical person to do.....they have switched to UP for their commutes. It used to be a pretty busy station on those GO trains....now it seems "no one" gets off WB trains there and EB trains seem to only drop off people with suitcases (ie people using the GO to get to Weston to then switch to the UP to the airport).
The stop at Weston takes, what, 1 minute? 2 minutes? It does not increase the total travel time between Union and Pearson all that much......and that is what airport users are going to measure the system on....not on how many stops are included in the 25 minute journey.
Weston may (may?) cease to be a stop on UP at some point....but I have shifted my thinking from that happening when Crosstown opens to it only happening if/when the GO service to and from Weston gets down to 15 minute frequencies. (or, I guess, if the price on UP starts to rise again to differentiate from GO).
With the fare reduction, though, Weston has taken on another purpose.....there has been a very clear change noticeable when riding GO trains on the Kitchener line. Weston station has become an almost pointless stop. The volumes of people getting on and off at the station has shrunk to near zero. The travelling/commuting consumer has done what you would expect any logical person to do.....they have switched to UP for their commutes. It used to be a pretty busy station on those GO trains....now it seems "no one" gets off WB trains there and EB trains seem to only drop off people with suitcases (ie people using the GO to get to Weston to then switch to the UP to the airport).
The stop at Weston takes, what, 1 minute? 2 minutes? It does not increase the total travel time between Union and Pearson all that much......and that is what airport users are going to measure the system on....not on how many stops are included in the 25 minute journey.
Weston may (may?) cease to be a stop on UP at some point....but I have shifted my thinking from that happening when Crosstown opens to it only happening if/when the GO service to and from Weston gets down to 15 minute frequencies. (or, I guess, if the price on UP starts to rise again to differentiate from GO).
crs1026
Superstar
Actually, I thought the Sun's article didn't add any new information and basically flogged a dead horse.
UPE has definitle turned a corner, sort of.....it now carries a meaningful ridership. Now ML needs to focus on economies. I rode the other day and noticed that they are still printing that airline-style on board magazine. I wonder why we need on board staff on every train instead of turning fare enforcement over to GO inspectors.
The GO officials quoted were asking a valid question..... if the ridership projection erred for the original pricing, what confidence is there that the same model would be accurate at a different price point? Anyways, it's all water under the bridge now.
- Paul
UPE has definitle turned a corner, sort of.....it now carries a meaningful ridership. Now ML needs to focus on economies. I rode the other day and noticed that they are still printing that airline-style on board magazine. I wonder why we need on board staff on every train instead of turning fare enforcement over to GO inspectors.
The GO officials quoted were asking a valid question..... if the ridership projection erred for the original pricing, what confidence is there that the same model would be accurate at a different price point? Anyways, it's all water under the bridge now.
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
Wasn't it that Metrolinx decided it was cheaper to run out the clock on the magazine contract than pay for the cancellation penalty and get nothing.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
How long is the magazine contract for? And how much was it a year -- about 500,000 or so as a wild guess, with a 500,000 cancellation penalty maybe?
15-20M subsidy sounds doable. Currently, it is still twice that.
dowlingm
Senior Member
I'm trying to find where I read that but can't pin it down. Will post if I find it.
crs1026
Superstar
I had commented on the magazine earlier in this forum, and had actually tweeted Anne Marie Aitkins asking why it was being distributed with the Globe
....there was no response from her.
- Paul