Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

robmausser said:
Smarttrack/GO-RER will be "at least" 15 minutes. Currently there are 7 minute headways on the GO train lakeshore West train during peak rush hour.

I hate this misconception and misinformation. UPX is every 15 minutes all the time.

Expect 5 minute frequencies for Smarttrack/GO RER for peak service. 15 minutes will just be nights/weekends.

Dont say its not possible: The Sydney commuter trains adhere to very similar standards as FRA/Transport Canada, and they have 120 SECOND frequencies at peak service.
Click to expand...
Believe what you want to believe. There is absolutely no facts to suggest what you say is to be true.
 
robmausser said:
Smarttrack/GO-RER will be "at least" 15 minutes.
Click to expand...
And the subway is "at least" 5 minutes. Often every 2 minutes. And yet I've many a time arrived on the platform to see Next Train 9 minutes, and less often Next Train 10 minutes.

Stuff is going to happen. Which is why SmartTrack isn't a great alternative to either a DRL, or an alternative to replace the SRT to Scarborough Centre.

robmausser said:
UPX is every 15 minutes all the time.
Click to expand...
Except as reported yesterday, there was a 30-minute gap at one point. I hate this misconception and misinformation.

robmausser said:
That is so unbelievably ignorant.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry? Your telling whoppers about the UPX always being every 15 minutes, when we already know that's not true. Surely that's ignorant!
 
LNahid2000 said:
So one trip being missed out of 600+ trips now means the service is automatically unreliable?
Click to expand...
Who said it was unreliable?

The subway is also reliable. Doesn't mean that I don't often see Next Train in 9 minutes. I normally don't see that ... but I see it often enough off-peak.
 
I see that outside rush hour too, but often the screen is just wrong and the train comes within 5 minutes anyway. I don't understand why we are comparing with the subway anyway since a "15-minute SmartTrack service is nothing like a subway".
 
LNahid2000 said:
I see that outside rush hour too, but often the screen is just wrong and the train comes within 5 minutes anyway. I don't understand why we are comparing with the subway anyway since a "15-minute SmartTrack service is nothing like a subway".
Click to expand...
The reason is, is that there are those who are trying to pretend that SmartTrack will be as frequent as a subway. However whenever you get something like a very infrequent off-peak service (like once every 15 minutes), that also means that when things go wrong, it's going to be at times, double that.

Which is why it's not a reasonable replacement for either a DRL or something like LRT/SRT.
 
A possible solution in the future is making announcements for UPX patrons to head to Dundas West Station; at least give people the option to get on their way themselves.
 
rdaner said:
A possible solution in the future is making announcements for UPX patrons to head to Dundas West Station; at least give people the option to get on their way themselves.
Click to expand...
From Union UPX station? That's about 20 minutes platform to platform. Before the long walk to the Union Subway station, and the outside long walk to Bloor station. How's that going to get you to Pearson any faster?
 
Thanks to all who contributed to the fare discussion. It was illuminating. I think, though, that all/most of the commenters didn't answer my question -- what would be the appropriate fare for the target audience. Almost everyone commented about whether the fare was right for themselves. And, with very few exceptions, you're not the target audience, since you're originating in Toronto.

I'm betting that the real target audience thinks this service is cheap and convenient, because that traveler is someone coming to visit Toronto, most likely for work but also for pleasure. We'll see what happens with the PanAms, but I'm betting the trains are packed coming down to Union as it'll get most people from the airport to their hotel in the most convenient way.
 
robmausser said:
Smarttrack/GO-RER will be "at least" 15 minutes. Currently there are 7 minute headways on the GO train lakeshore West train during peak rush hour.

I hate this misconception and misinformation. UPX is every 15 minutes all the time.
Click to expand...
I hate this focus on the 7-minute headway. It makes it sound like the line gets more service than it actually does. It sounds great on paper, but the reality is that there are only two stations where you can expect to catch a train every 7 minutes, and that is at Oakville and at Union. In fact, there are 5 stations (Exhibition, Mimico, Long Branch, Port Credit, and Hamilton), which makeup 45% of the Lakeshore West Line, where you can only depart or arrive every 30 minutes. At most other stations, there are departures or arrivals every 8 - 20 minutes during peak. I believe that there are only 3 scheduled pairs that arrive 8-minutes apart (with 15-16 minute gaps before and after), and these only service Clarkson, Oakville, Bronte, Burlington, Appleby, and Aldershot.
 
Last edited:
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Thanks to all who contributed to the fare discussion. It was illuminating. I think, though, that all/most of the commenters didn't answer my question -- what would be the appropriate fare for the target audience. Almost everyone commented about whether the fare was right for themselves. And, with very few exceptions, you're not the target audience, since you're originating in Toronto.
.
Click to expand...

If the target audience is people headed to downtown hotels or business meetings, then yes the current fare is something people will be willing to pay.

My model would be assume two people travelling together (fits both business and leisure scenarios), match the cab/limo fare to downtown, and treat the speed and reliability (especially compared to Gardiner at rush hour) as the competitive value. Maybe even charge a few dollars above the 2-in-a-cab fare, given the value of reaching downtown quickly and reliably. People who fly into Toronto on early flights to attend meetings, and people who are trying to get out of downtown late in the day when the Gardiner is clogged, will certainly pay top dollar for this service. Tourists in the downtown hotels will like the simplicity of a train to get them to Union, even if they have a short taxi or TTC ride from there.

What's a little iffier is whether other travellers, especially those headed to/from other than the central city, will pay this fare. Outside the downtown core, the convenience of a limo/cab door to door may outweigh price points. For those contemplating transit - outside of rush hour, once you have schlepped your bag to the subway, you might as well stay on to Kipling and grab the Rocket, and save the cash. My theory would be that people close to Line 1 might be willing to ride down to Union rather than transfer to Line 2, but few would get off Line 2 at Yonge or St George to do so.

So this leads me to believe that at current fare, UPX will be hugely popular at rush hour (business travellers) and moderately loaded off peak (tourists). An earlier poster suggested that UPX only needs to be 38% full to break even. If that's true, I do think they can meet this target with the above ridership audience.

What grates is a) no seat should be empty and b) the perfect target audience, as described above, is such a small subsample of travellers that the rest of us may never have a reason to ride UPX. I wonder how practical a peak-hours surcharge would be. I would love to see deep discounts off peak - it may not bring more revenue, but it would fill the trains.

Frankly, I don't mind if we gouge the Pan Am tourists to the hilt. So we should live with the current fares until year end, see how the longer term ridership develops, and see what tweaks can be figured out over time.

- Paul
 
People that travel by plane and head to and from the airport normally have sufficient funds for this purpose. Not quite sure why people thought this was going to be public transportation. Instead of getting bad looks on the subway jam-packed with people staring us down having too much luggage that takes up prime room for other passengers, we can travel on a line dedicated just for us and our luggage and be with fellow travelers in rush hour. Is that the intended purpose of UP? This isn't the YVR skytrain. I'm happy its not.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top