Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

ksun said:
I bought a presto too a couple of months ago and never had the chance to use it.
Just don't understand why it takes so long to adopt a simple fare card system wide, something even third world countries are capable of doing. So for me, it is the stupid little tokens most of the time too.
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Have you seen the work involved in getting Presto set up in the subway stations? It all has to be hard-wired in, cut through the floor and set up on a turnstile or two. Installation on buses and streetcars is more than just screwing in a Presto reader next to the door; one estimate I heard was that Presto installation in a bus runs around $1,300-$1,400. The TTC has 1,800+ buses and 250+ streetcars, plus the infrastructure needed in each garage. It could be done in a massive program, but someone needs to provide the $$$ to pay for the work. And as always, it comes back to politicians who don't want to spend any more than the bare minimum on transit infrastructure especially if no ribbon-cuttings are involved. So until then, the token will live on.
 
Napoleon said:
Good trip report. I mean I think this is why I complain about the pricing. Living near Wellesley station, a short walk from the subway, I'll spend $22 to save all of 5-10 minutes over the TTC. I've made it door to door in under an hour with the TTC and the 192 bus. I'm not exactly far from Union, and if I were too much further, I would actually take longer with the UPX.

Now, I get that they want to maximize revenue; however, this is paid for with my provincial tax dollars...so I'd much rather have a fairly priced service that more people use than a "premium" product just catering to the business set. I'm just hoping they're responsive once they figure out where they are on the price-demand curve.
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You can also take the subway to Dundas West and transfer there. Travel time from Bloor to Pearson is 17 minutes vs 45 minutes (with no traffic) via TTC and the fare is only $15.20 with Presto. Or if you're in a rush you can take an UberX car for $6-7 to Union and the UPX from there.
 
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Riverdale Rink Rat said:
I really am having a hard time understanding the amount of people who've gotten weird about the pricing. You don't price a product based on anything except maximizing your revenue. UPX is not a civic infrastructure transit piece. It's a premium transportation method from Pearson to Union. You're not pricing it to maximize rides, you're pricing it to maximize revenue. If the pricing is too high to attract riders, it'll come down.

Having said that, the pricing seems to be spot-on. It's very cheap compared to a taxi/limo and and at Union you connect to the PATH. If you're at a PATH-connected hotel, or going straight to a CBD office, it's faster, more convenient, easy to clean off your e-mails while getting to the office, and you get kudos from Finance when you submit your expenses.

If you're a tourist going to the SkyDome or ACC for an event, you're again connected. If you're a tourist going to Union to catch a train, again, it's cheap compared to a taxi ride. If you're a family of 5 staying at the Royal York or Delta with plans to go to Ripley's or a concert, it's easier, as cheap, and much cooler for the kids than a taxi.

So, here's my question: what do you think the fare should be? Not what would be 'fair', but rather what do you think the target audience would perceive as good value for the product? Full disclosure: I think the fare is, if anything, too cheap. I'd have paid an extra $10. But I'm no longer in the 'value traveler' demographic, I know.
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Consider how many people were using the Airport Express bus for $27 from downtown which was way slower due to traffic.

It's by far the fastest way to go from places near the stations to Pearson. Taxi or TTC are both way slower. Taxi costs around $60 from downtown to Pearson. You could probably have up to 3 people and UPX would still be worth it.

Having said that, to answer your question, if I would control the prices I would probably lower it by $5, so $15 for Presto, $22 for cash fare. That's just my gut judgement, it's not based on really based on any financial data or anything.
 
ehlow said:
Consider how many people were using the Airport Express bus for $27 from downtown which was way slower due to traffic.

It's by far the fastest way to go from places near the stations to Pearson. Taxi or TTC are both way slower. Taxi costs around $60 from downtown to Pearson. You could probably have up to 3 people and UPX would still be worth it.

Having said that, to answer your question, if I would control the prices I would probably lower it by $5, so $15 for Presto, $22 for cash fare. That's just my gut judgement, it's not based on really based on any financial data or anything.
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But the bus drop you off at the front door of Your Hotel and pick you up as well. Depending where you are staying, either a long walk or using an extra TTC fare from UPX now. Same can be said about cabs.
 
drum118 said:
But the bus drop you off at the front door of Your Hotel and pick you up as well. Depending where you are staying, either a long walk or using an extra TTC fare from UPX now. Same can be said about cabs.
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I agree. People talk about the convenience and luxury of just hopping aboard the UPX...but for me at Yonge/College, I still have to carry my luggage down two flights of stairs at College Station, and maneuver the crowds, packed subway cars, etc just to get to Union, so it's not like it removes the hassle of using the TTC. That still exists before my convenient and luxurious UPX train ride :p
 
mdrejhon said:
For those who know what UPX is, the temporary signage was pretty good. I took a brief look during lunch period, at the Union station. Very nicely approportioned, but will need refinements to the UPX marketing strategy.

The biggest problem at the moment, that Metrolinx probably want to make a priority, is tweaking the branding.
"UP Express" with a subheading at bottom of "To Airport" and "To Downtown" depending on where the signage is
At least for the first year or two.
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Great point. The signage was good because I knew what UPX was. If I didn't, it wouldn't help at all!

Also, and I think there were varying opinions on this in this thread, but if you're going to say "To Airport" I think it needs to specify "PEARSON Airport" since we have two airports.
 
Thanks! That's my feeling about it too. If someone who lives near College or Wellesley Stations doesn't save enough time to justify the cost even being so close to Union, how would it be justifiable for anyone further? But then I'm a cheap traveller. I have friends who also consider themselves cheap travellers, but pay 40 dollars each way to select their plane seat in advance (rather than just checking in early and doing it for free), another 65 each way on a cab in Toronto, plus however much on a cab at their arrival, etc. So I could definitely see people paying the full price even if I can't understand it or justify it myself.
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
Have you seen the work involved in getting Presto set up in the subway stations? It all has to be hard-wired in, cut through the floor and set up on a turnstile or two. Installation on buses and streetcars is more than just screwing in a Presto reader next to the door; one estimate I heard was that Presto installation in a bus runs around $1,300-$1,400. The TTC has 1,800+ buses and 250+ streetcars, plus the infrastructure needed in each garage. It could be done in a massive program, but someone needs to provide the $$$ to pay for the work. And as always, it comes back to politicians who don't want to spend any more than the bare minimum on transit infrastructure especially if no ribbon-cuttings are involved. So until then, the token will live on.
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Absolutely, except some sort of electronic fare media has long been the world standard...among cities that have adapted within the last decade and a half:
North America: Boston, SF, Chicago (now on the second generation), LA, Atlanta, DC (new generation), Vancouver
Elsewhere: Tokyo, London, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Amsterdam, Sydney, etc.
Those are just places I've been. I've read even Bangladesh has electronic fare collection. Toronto is not just a little behind, it's woefully behind. At the numbers you quote per bus/streetcar, it's under $3 million dollars for the whole system...what is that, 2 new street cars? There are also real costs for the old system...lots of cash being moved around. Token machines to stock and maintain. Highly paid collectors sitting in booths.
This should simply be a top priority.
 
ndawgg said:
Thanks! That's my feeling about it too. If someone who lives near College or Wellesley Stations doesn't save enough time to justify the cost even being so close to Union, how would it be justifiable for anyone further? But then I'm a cheap traveller. I have friends who also consider themselves cheap travellers, but pay 40 dollars each way to select their plane seat in advance (rather than just checking in early and doing it for free), another 65 each way on a cab in Toronto, plus however much on a cab at their arrival, etc. So I could definitely see people paying the full price even if I can't understand it or justify it myself.
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Ummmm. If you're a cheap traveller, you don't even leave from Canada, you drive to Buffalo. Then again I was doing that when the dollar was closer to par, but I probably would still do it. Absolutely hate Pearson - especially the fares.
 
Someone at College or Wellesley also has the option of going to Dundas West to save both time and a chunk of the fare.
 
cibc employees only have to pay the presto fare - without presto. I'm assuming this is for delliote, Rogers and Cisco as well for being the other 3 founding partners.
 
I can officially say that the first Pearson to Kitchener trip via the Weston UPX stop is in progress. For late-afternoon landings, it's one of the best public transport options available to Kitchener.
 
rdaner said:
Someone at College or Wellesley also has the option of going to Dundas West to save both time and a chunk of the fare.
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By the time you get on the Bloor line, and then get off at Dundas West, half to walk a long ways to Bloor station (or walk less an jaywalk across Dundas to the new entrance, without even a pedestrian crossing) ... is it really a better option than staying on the subway to Kipling, and taking the elevator right to the Airport Express that runs to the airport every few minutes?

Perhaps if there was a more convenient connection from the subway to the GO station ...
 
rdaner said:
Someone at College or Wellesley also has the option of going to Dundas West to save both time and a chunk of the fare.
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So I schlep my stuff down two flights of stairs, get on the crowded subway with luggage, transfer at Yonge/Bloor, take my luggage down the stairs, get on another crowded subway and when I'm halfway to Kipling, get off, schlep to the UPX and then pay a bunch of money when I've already done most of the work via subway and paid my $3? By that point wouldn't it be worth it to just ride it the few extra stops to Kipling and take the bus anyway?
 
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