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^The closing of streets connecting both sides of Weston is a sticking point.

Whoaccio said:
The loss of level crossings: I tend to fall into the 'suck it up camp.' If the community is seriously upset about this, there isn't much I can say that would lessen that. But, looking at this issue in isolation, it is a NIMBY issue. These crossings will have to be closed no matter what if the city is even remotely serious about bringing rail transit anywhere in the NW. Doesn't Metrolinx plan to run 'REX' services along here to Brampton that will inevitably require the exact same thing? In the long term, local walk in retail traffic will just migrate to different locations.
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No, REX style services won't inevitably require closing streets. The line could be trenched with streets crossing as bridges. In fact, that's exactly what the Weston coalition has proposed, and there are examples of this elsewhere in the GTA. You could run all the trains you want through a trenched corridor and it wouldn't split the community in two the way the Blue22 proposal would have.

On the issue of diesel vs. electric trains, it's really a moot point. Metrolinx plans on upgrading this corridor to express rail as far as Brampton. They define express rail as "typically electric", so the line will likely be electrified in the future anyway. Even lines that they call regional rail, which are closer to the existing GO model, might be electrified.

If the Brampton line is converted to express rail and trenched through Weston, then I think we'd see a lot less opposition to a private express service that uses public tracks....so long as the tracks are upgraded primarily for the express rail service and not the private service. The EA really needs to be finished for this project so these questions can be answered once and for all.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Blue22 business plan depended on the lack of frequent public express rail serving the airport... and if the line is upgraded to express rail, the business plan would fall apart.
 
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Years ago they backed off closing ALL the crossings. There's 3 right in a row, and I thought they'd settled on keeping some open.

Really, this whole discussion is premature until the first public meeting, when we'll get to see what's on the table.
 
MisterF said:
No, REX style services won't inevitably require closing streets. The line could be trenched with streets crossing as bridges. In fact, that's exactly what the Weston coalition has proposed, and there are examples of this elsewhere in the GTA. You could run all the trains you want through a trenched corridor and it wouldn't split the community in two the way the Blue22 proposal would have.
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This is disingenuous. We could certainly trench the corridor, but nobody (aside from the Weston Coalition) is actually considering that. It is a classic NIMBY tactic to propose something prohibitively expensive as a way to make it look like you actually want more of whatever it is you are trying to stop. Like when the SOS crowd proposes a subway instead of the LRT ROW or when the anti-wind crowd proposes something even more expensive (geothermal) to pretend to care. It is just a false argument that is thrown up to divert attention.

The Weston Coalition specifically suggested trenching, too. If the issue was just to avoid 'splitting the community in half' it would make much more sense to over/under pass John, King & Church. They could even be pedestrian bridges (since the extra distance driving would be negligible). This could be accomplished quite easily. The trenching suggestion was made deliberately to select the most expensive option, and hence the most likely to sink the project as a whole.
 
TOareaFan said:
I am starting to feel dumb about this 'cause I really don't understand. If the community (and by that I mean the bigger community served by this line including the folks in Weston but not exclusively them) is getting what they seek (more frequent and reliable public transit) what opposition could they (we....since it is the line I use) have to an additional service on that line that serves, primarily, a different community but does not detract from the better transit we were seeking?

I really am having trouble with the continued opposition to the express train.....which offers a different, complimentary, service to more frequent GO.
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If the issue was about an express branch on an existing local line then I would agree with you 100%, and I do believe that your vision of the corridor (two tiers of service) it the one that get's built. It's just unfortunate that it wasn't presented that way in the first place, and I kind of get the sense that a loophole in the EA rules allowed it to occur.

Since SNC-Lavalin is a private corportation, they MIGHT have been able to conduct market studies well in advance of the start of the EA and essentially make their final proposal from day one. Since GO is a public agency, they have to include the needs assessment in the EA process and can't pre-plan.

When the EA began the GO column was blank (because it legally had to be) and the community got spooked - assuming I am interpreting the rules of EAs correctly (ask me more in April when I'm done the course :)).

Hopefully this helps you understand a bit more.

...'Tis best to share knowledge than to beat someone over the head with it.
 
Blue 22- letter in york guardian

Rail line must help, not hurt, Weston
January 06, 2009 12:21 PM
Print E-mail Text
Re: 'MPP steps up lobby for rail link stops in Weston,' News, Dec. 19
It must be made clear that the issue within Weston around Blue-22 is not solely about getting a stop or NIMBYism. It's a matter of protecting and revitalizing a community that has already been stigmatized as the second poorest riding in Ontario.

Our main street continues to deteriorate and dividing the residents from the business strip will ultimately be the last nail in the coffin of a once-vibrant Weston Road. Our community will see all four of its main streets closed. No one has stated the negative impact that the additional trains will have on the schools and churches that are directly next to the tracks. How will we get to these schools, the churches and to Weston Road, should the streets close? The potential of losing the Weston Farmers Market due to street closures is quite great.

A stop in Weston would be nice. But not at the expense of the community, its businesses and its residents. If money can be spent on burying the train downtown through Strachan Avenue, surely money is available to accommodate Weston. If Blue-22 is being built using public money - yours and mine - then why should the communities the train travels through not be concerned by the potential damages that this train will cause?

It is our right as residents of Toronto, not just Weston, to criticize bad planning. It's about building a transit link once, and building it properly for all Torontonians to benefit from and enjoy.
 
And it's our rights as residents of Toronto, but not Weston, to criticize the Nimby-like actions of those in Weston.
 
I can't believe all these people contining to bash Weston residents. Makes me want to bash my head against the wall.

Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT.


martin-flute.jpg
 
nfitz said:
And it's our rights as residents of Toronto, but not Weston, to criticize the Nimby-like actions of those in Weston.
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WOW, what a complete disregard for anothers community. I bet you will never ever use the ARL when it costs $20+ a ride one way and you can get one of your so called "friends" to drive you to the airport.
 
saveyorksouthweston said:
WOW, what a complete disregard for anothers community. I bet you will never ever use the ARL when it costs $20+ a ride one way and you can get one of your so called "friends" to drive you to the airport.
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How does that influence you're argument? And why did you quote "friends"?
 
Well, Whoaccio, you also derogatorily refer to Toronto Islanders as "squatters", so that shows the kind of mentality you reflect...
 
^
Are you implying anything other than I have bias? Thats rich.

EDIT: Just for the sake of propriety, Islanders are squatters (though, I myself, just called the entire community a "squatter camp"). I could at least resign myself to them sucking up public land for their own little utopia if they didn't then turn around to screw everything. There is NIMBYism, then there are the Toronto Islands.
 
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I for one do not find the Weston point of view to be nimby. The commercial properties along Weston Road would be quite cut off from the residential areas to the east, and the eastern residential areas from the closest commercial zone. Weston would become more isolated than it already is, and without a stop there, there is nothing really in it for them.

Frankly, I wish Blue22 would die. It strikes me as badly thought out - either integrate with the TTC or GO or just don't bother.

I go to the airport a lot. If the TTC continued to run the express service from Kipling, I would use that rather than Blue22, which strikes me as cab-like in its fees, especially if there is more than one of you travelling.

I believe that if Blue22 goes ahead, it will need to be bailed out repeatedly.
 
Whoaccio said:
This is disingenuous. We could certainly trench the corridor, but nobody (aside from the Weston Coalition) is actually considering that. It is a classic NIMBY tactic to propose something prohibitively expensive as a way to make it look like you actually want more of whatever it is you are trying to stop. Like when the SOS crowd proposes a subway instead of the LRT ROW or when the anti-wind crowd proposes something even more expensive (geothermal) to pretend to care. It is just a false argument that is thrown up to divert attention.

The Weston Coalition specifically suggested trenching, too. If the issue was just to avoid 'splitting the community in half' it would make much more sense to over/under pass John, King & Church. They could even be pedestrian bridges (since the extra distance driving would be negligible). This could be accomplished quite easily. The trenching suggestion was made deliberately to select the most expensive option, and hence the most likely to sink the project as a whole.
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No, what's disingenuous is equating the Weston Coalition with SOS, or equating trenching a small section of rail corridor to a new subway line on St. Clair. The Weston Coalition favours more transit along the rail corridor, which has been demonstrated many times.

Trenching is one of several options to increase rail service on the line without closing the three streets. A tunnel is the most expensive (not trenching), and other options, like you say, include overpasses and underpasses. Which brings me full circle to my previous post - by your own argument, REX style service won't inevitably require closing streets. So there's no need for Weston residents and businesses to "suck it up".
 
Whoaccio said:
^
Are you implying anything other than I have bias? Thats rich.

EDIT: Just for the sake of propriety, Islanders are squatters (though, I myself, just called the entire community a "squatter camp"). I could at least resign myself to them sucking up public land for their own little utopia if they didn't then turn around to screw everything. There is NIMBYism, then there are the Toronto Islands.
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Whoaccio: you would have had a more viable critical mass behind you a quarter century ago. But since then, getting cheesed off about those "Island squatters" has been relegated to the realm of the anti-special-interest-group suburban-taxpayer-grump fringe and Judi McLeod types. If you don't mind keeping that company, well, suit yourself. But given how the deck is stacked, may I recommend that you practice what you preach, and suck it up...
 
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