Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[crs1026]

Boston's Logan Airport is a good model to aspire to. There is a FREE shuttle bus from all Logan terminals to the nearest subway station (arguably Toronto's 192 is also free, in the sense that anyone paying for a subway ride gets a free ride on the bus), a FREE shuttle bus to downtown at South Station (the equivalent of Union Station) and a $5 bus to two other downtown locations. Certainly a bus shuttle to Malton GO/VIA would be easy to initiate.

I ride the 192 frequently, and find it's fairly reliable, although the 427 can be anything but speedy. The limiting factor is how far one has to schlep one's luggage at the other end of the TTC trip - fortunately, I'm close to the subway. If I were already on the Bloor Subway, I'd choose to carry on to Kipling versus getting off at Dundas West and dragging my bag to the UPX station, the incremental time is not that much. (Don't get me started on how the TTC and GO have been agreeing to disagree about a direct connection at Dundas West....it has always been a matter of duelling bureaucrats, the civil engineering challenge is pretty simple.). BTW the Lawrence 52 bus runs frequently into Pearson also, so I would say the same about Weston....why get off TTC and incur the extra walk to UPX, plus the fare, when the bus that goes by Weston UPX carries right on to the airport?

Getting Crosstown extended to the Airport is clearly part of the solution. That should be in the works already. Saying that something that won't happen til 2020+ is "soon" is absurd.

- Paul

 

[ksun]

Boston's Logan Airport is a good model to aspire to. There is a FREE shuttle bus from all Logan terminals to the nearest subway station (arguably Toronto's 192 is also free, in the sense that anyone paying for a subway ride gets a free ride on the bus), a FREE shuttle bus to downtown at South Station (the equivalent of Union Station) and a $5 bus to two other downtown locations. Certainly a bus shuttle to Malton GO/VIA would be easy to initiate.

Logan is only 5km from downtown Boston, so it is quite different from Pearson.
Why do you say 192 is arguably free? You can't board the bus without payment at the terminal. And if you live near Kipling station, you still need to pay $3 to take it.

 

[Electrify]

BlogTO posted a very good critique of the fares: http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/12/is_torontos_air-rail_link_the_priciest_in_north_america/

This is my comment:

From the airport, you can take a TTC express bus to downtown Etobicoke for $3.00 cash. MiWay runs local and BRT services to Square One for $3.25 cash. Brampton Transit runs an express bus to Bramalea City Centre for $3.75. GO/Metrolinx also operates commuter buses which stop at the airport and go to downtown Brampton and North York for $5.70. In addition to this, they also operate an Airport Express route to Richmond Hill Centre for $6.35.

The Metrolinx Union-Pearson Express which operates to downtown Toronto will cost $27.50. As the article points out, if it ran non-stop between Union and Pearson, it might be able to justify its high cost. Instead it is not much more than a Kitchiner GO spur line.

Perhaps the most ironic thing is that Toronto's airport, the largest airport in the country serving a city which chose to put transit ahead of highway construction in the 1970s, has affordable express and direct transit links to all these suburban downtowns and centres, except to downtown Toronto itself. To double down on the irony, most of these suburban hubs which link to the airport are served by substandard transit once you arrive at them.

According to GO's fare calculator, if they ran a bus between the airport and their downtown bus terminal it would cost $6.80 cash.

 

[crs1026]

Logan is only 5km from downtown Boston, so it is quite different from Pearson.
Why do you say 192 is arguably free? You can't board the bus without payment at the terminal. And if you live near Kipling station, you still need to pay $3 to take it.

What I meant was - leaving Logan, you don't pay to ride the bus, but you pay a fare when you get on the subway. With TTC, you pay a fare when you get on the bus at Pearson, but you don't pay a fare when you get on the subway at Kipling. So it's a wash....but in Boston, if you don't get on the subway, you haven't paid to ride the bus.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

What I meant was - leaving Logan, you don't pay to ride the bus, but you pay a fare when you get on the subway. With TTC, you pay a fare when you get on the bus at Pearson, but you don't pay a fare when you get on the subway at Kipling. So it's a wash....but in Boston, if you don't get on the subway, you haven't paid to ride the bus.

Logan is about the same distance from South Station at Union Station is to Toronto Island airport, which has a free shuttle.

And the Logan "free shuttle to the nearest subway station" is to the Blue Line station called "Airport Station". That's about the same distance as the free shuttle at Pearson between T1 and Viscount Station.

 

[Electrify]

What I meant was - leaving Logan, you don't pay to ride the bus, but you pay a fare when you get on the subway. With TTC, you pay a fare when you get on the bus at Pearson, but you don't pay a fare when you get on the subway at Kipling. So it's a wash....but in Boston, if you don't get on the subway, you haven't paid to ride the bus.

- Paul

Well, there is the LINK train which connects to the MiWay express route.

 

[TOareaFan]

BlogTO posted a very good critique of the fares: http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/12/is_torontos_air-rail_link_the_priciest_in_north_america/

This is my comment:

From the airport, you can take a TTC express bus to downtown Etobicoke for $3.00 cash. MiWay runs local and BRT services to Square One for $3.25 cash. Brampton Transit runs an express bus to Bramalea City Centre for $3.75. GO/Metrolinx also operates commuter buses which stop at the airport and go to downtown Brampton and North York for $5.70. In addition to this, they also operate an Airport Express route to Richmond Hill Centre for $6.35.

Can't speak to your MiWay fare but your BT fare is only $2.80 with a Prestocard. Presumably someone taking the bus from Pearson to Brampton is either an airport worker or a Brampton resident returning from a trip....no reason they should not have a PrestoCard....so $2.80 is what I would call the real fare.

The Metrolinx Union-Pearson Express which operates to downtown Toronto will cost $27.50.

Again, the real fare for locals is $19 (or less if you fall into one of the discount categories.

As the article points out, if it ran non-stop between Union and Pearson, it might be able to justify its high cost. Instead it is not much more than a Kitchiner GO spur line.

They really can't win, can they? The original plan was 1 stop (at Bloor GO/Dundas West) and that was to intersect with line 2 to make the service accessible from the city and not just the financial core (yet they still get called an premium service for elite business folk).....and they were forced into the Weston stop by residents in the area......and now they are criticized for stopping too much.

To double down on the irony, most of these suburban hubs which link to the airport are served by substandard transit once you arrive at them.

How, for example, is Brampton transit substandard? The airport bus goes to the Bramalea City Centre terminal from which you can get to most of Brampton with pretty good frequencies and if you are going somewhere south of there you can get off the airport bus and switch to other routes like Steeles (regular bus or Zum).

BT is not the TTC....but given the relative size and natures of the cities...it probably shouldn't be. It is a growing system that carries a lot of people and is, for the most part, keeping up with the growth in transit use in the city by adding service in a fairly logical (for the most part) manner.

 

[smallspy]

(Don't get me started on how the TTC and GO have been agreeing to disagree about a direct connection at Dundas West....it has always been a matter of duelling bureaucrats, the civil engineering challenge is pretty simple.)

- Paul

Yes, the engineering is simple, and is frankly just about completed.

There have been no disagreements between the TTC and GO however - GO has said as early as 1981 that they wanted a direct connection to the subway, and not only did the TTC do much of the preliminary engineering in the late 1980s, but they also identified that potential exit as a necessary addition over 10 years ago due to changes in fire codes.

So, what's the hold up?

Part of it is that there have almost always been other things that have come up to divert funds from it - it's a "nice to have", not a "we need to do it now", although the change in fire code has certainly put far more impetus on making it happen.

But the largest part of the delay in it has been The Crossways themselves. They seem to have regarded the connection at various times as either their "get rich quick" ticket, or a hindrance that would cause the inevitable demise of the complex. Because of the trouble that they have caused, and the exponential increase in their demands for compensation for the project, the TTC and GO have both laid the project to the wayside - it simply wasn't worth the cost or trouble.

Hopefully, with the impending improvements in service to GO, that will soon change. In the meantime, the sidewalk and lights Edna will be an improvement, although one would hope a temporary one.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Platform 27]

Yes, the engineering is simple, and is frankly just about completed.

There have been no disagreements between the TTC and GO however - GO has said as early as 1981 that they wanted a direct connection to the subway, and not only did the TTC do much of the preliminary engineering in the late 1980s, but they also identified that potential exit as a necessary addition over 10 years ago due to changes in fire codes.

So, what's the hold up?

Part of it is that there have almost always been other things that have come up to divert funds from it - it's a "nice to have", not a "we need to do it now", although the change in fire code has certainly put far more impetus on making it happen.

But the largest part of the delay in it has been The Crossways themselves. They seem to have regarded the connection at various times as either their "get rich quick" ticket, or a hindrance that would cause the inevitable demise of the complex. Because of the trouble that they have caused, and the exponential increase in their demands for compensation for the project, the TTC and GO have both laid the project to the wayside - it simply wasn't worth the cost or trouble.

Hopefully, with the impending improvements in service to GO, that will soon change. In the meantime, the sidewalk and lights Edna will be an improvement, although one would hope a temporary one.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Seconding this. I have been reliably informed by someone who ought to know that 100% of the delay is Crossways. GO's wanted it for ages. TTC also very much wants it -- as you noted it might have been seen as a "nice to have" in the past, but they now have a more emphatic interest in getting a second entrance into Dundas West for fire safety reasons. Crossways is holding out and has basically dared them to bring out the expropriation hammer in order to maximize their $$$.

 

[junctionist]

This situation seems to be exactly what expropriation is for. But you don't really maximize your money if you force the government to expropriate. You're supposed to get fair market compensation, but ultimately you're giving up property rights.

 

[TOareaFan]

If I was a retail tenant at Crossways I would be continually telling the landlord how mad I was that they were resisting the efforts of GO/TTC to drive traffic through the centre (and past my business) in favour of making people walk outside where they can't see my business.

 

[salsa]

How about we just implode this ugly building so we can get on with improving transit in the area.

 

[Platform 27]

Any hardy souls trekking out to watch inaugural trains through the Weston tunnel on Monday? I say this as someone who will emphatically not be.

With the tunnel, the Kitchener line will now be fully grade-separated from Union out to Scarboro St. in Malton, a distance of 15.27 miles or 24.6 km. All three east-west GO lines heading west out of Union will now be fully grade-separated within City of Toronto limits. Getting there.

 

[smallspy]

If I was a retail tenant at Crossways I would be continually telling the landlord how mad I was that they were resisting the efforts of GO/TTC to drive traffic through the centre (and past my business) in favour of making people walk outside where they can't see my business.

Except that any connection would be at the very north end of the facility - well away from all of the commercial tenants.

I suspect that is why they've been able to fight against it for so long. There may be a bit of a benefit, but it's been so hard to quantify that they can't get the tenants onside.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Except that any connection would be at the very north end of the facility - well away from all of the commercial tenants.

I suspect that is why they've been able to fight against it for so long. There may be a bit of a benefit, but it's been so hard to quantify that they can't get the tenants onside.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

The two options seem to have the possibility that there could be no access to Crossroads, which means a loss of potential revenue for Crossroads. That would be bad for those tenants, at least I think so.