Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Markster]

The train from Newark to Penn Station is only about [$14.35 CAD] and it's further than Union is from Pearson. Are the people who priced this out of their minds???

Have you actually taken the train Newark to/from Penn?

It's a long people-mover ride from the terminals. If you aren't taking it at rush hour, you need to check a schedule, as the train is only half hourly or hourly. If you're like me, you'll just miss the train while on the people-mover. The platform at Newark is outdoors and poorly lit. The service is simply part of NJTransit, and figuring out the fare, and where/how to pay requires learning how to use NJTransit, and how to navigate Penn's NJTransit concourse.

As a traveler to a foreign city, yes, I am happy to pay an additional $13 for the comfort of:
a) The train being a short walk from the gate
b) It being every 15 minutes, even on Sunday afternoon
c) It having a very large, well-signed presence at Union Station

As for Torontonians, they need never pay $27.50. Even savvy budget-conscious travelers need not:

Q. Can I buy a PRESTO card at UP Express Stations?
A. Yes, PRESTO cards are available for purchase at service counters located at all four UP Express stations. In future, cards will be available for purchase through select ticket vending machines at all four UP Express stations.

A Presto Card vending machine at Union is already in the works:

PRESTO cards will also be available for purchase at TTC Metropass Vending Machines located at Union and Spadina subway stations, as part of a pilot project. For $20, transit users will be able to purchase a $6 PRESTO card pre-loaded with $14 e-purse and adult concession set ready for immediate use.

 

[gweed123]

Interesting point made in the meeting today (I'm watching the live stream): When you factor in the federal tax deduction for transit fares, the fare equivalent of the monthly pass for airport employees is virtually identical to what the GO fare would be for a similar distance. So in essence, the UPX cost for airport employees is almost identical to what the average commuter pays for an equivalent trip using GO.

Just another way of looking at it.

 

[TOareaFan]

Interesting point made in the meeting today (I'm watching the live stream): When you factor in the federal tax deduction for transit fares, the fare equivalent of the monthly pass for airport employees is virtually identical to what the GO fare would be for a similar distance. So in essence, the UPX cost for airport employees is almost identical to what the average commuter pays for an equivalent trip using GO.

Just another way of looking at it.

Doesn't the regular GO commuter also get the tax credit?

 

[nfitz]

Interesting point made in the meeting today (I'm watching the live stream): When you factor in the federal tax deduction for transit fares, the fare equivalent of the monthly pass for airport employees is virtually identical to what the GO fare would be for a similar distance. So in essence, the UPX cost for airport employees is almost identical to what the average commuter pays for an equivalent trip using GO.

Just another way of looking at it.

Except that the average commuter on GO is using Presto and gets the same federal tax deduction.

That being said though, the monthly fare for the UPX is not that much more than the monthly fare from Malton GO to Union.

 

[gweed123]

Except that the average commuter on GO is using Presto and gets the same federal tax deduction.

That being said though, the monthly fare for the UPX is not that much more than the monthly fare from Malton GO to Union.

Yes, that was the point. They tried to get the UPX airport worker fare to as close to the GO fare to Malton as they could. I'd say they got it pretty damn close. The tax credit thing may have been manipulating the numbers a little bit on their part, but the general point is that it's not like airport workers are getting gouged compared to the average GO commuter.

 

[Markster]

Let's look at some actual numbers:

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/fares/farecalculator.aspx

Union to Malton, with Presto:
$218.35 / month

Union to Pearson, with Pearson Pass:
$300 / month

Assuming those are both equally eligible for the tax break, it's a 37% premium to get 15 minute service to the door of your workplace.

 

[nfitz]

Let's look at some actual numbers:

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/fares/farecalculator.aspx

Union to Malton, with Presto:
$218.35 / month

Union to Pearson, with Pearson Pass:
$300 / month

Assuming those are both equally eligible for the tax break, it's a 37% premium to get 15 minute service to the door of your workplace.

That's not the 2015 GO Fare though. Metrolinx has approved the monthly Union to Malton fare to increase from $218.35 to $231.20 so that's a 30% premium not a 37% premium.

Is a 30% premium for using a premium service really that terrible?

 

[gweed123]

That's not the 2015 GO Fare though. Metrolinx has approved the monthly Union to Malton fare to increase from $218.35 to $231.20 so that's a 30% premium not a 37% premium.

Is a 30% premium for using a premium service really that terrible?

You also have to look at the fact that right now, especially compared to the 15 minute UPX service levels, there's practically nothing on the Kitchener corridor. Most of the trips are bus trips. Ask almost any commuter on any line except for Lakeshore if they would pay a 30% premium to have 15 minute AD2W GO service, and I think the answer would be an overwhelming yes.

 

[nfitz]

You also have to look at the fact that right now, especially compared to the 15 minute UPX service levels, there's practically nothing on the Kitchener corridor. Most of the trips are bus trips. Ask almost any commuter on any line except for Lakeshore if they would pay a 30% premium to have 15 minute AD2W GO service, and I think the answer would be an overwhelming yes.

Surely it would be best to compare the fall 2015 GO service level when it's available.

 

[Cobra]

This graph caught my interest

Is Toronto's air-rail link the priciest in North America?

http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/12/is_torontos_air-rail_link_the_priciest_in_north_america/

 

[ssiguy2]

We sure do like to play the poverty card when it comes to paying for services in Toronto. If we're not complaining about the inability to buy beer at-cost, or a cash-starved medical system, we are disgusted about paying for the convenience of getting to the airport to take a holiday/business trip that can easily cost thousands of dollars.

I appreciate what you are saying but the reality is that if the tourist is travelling with just one other passenger then it's cheaper to take a cab especially true if they don't live within spitting distance of Union. The business class couldn't care less if the fare $1.50 or $150.........they won't pay for it regardless.

This line is an affront to the taxpayers of Ontario and the long suffering commuters of Toronto. This should just be a TTC service as part of SmartTrack. Amazing how some think SmartTrack won't work or can't be done in 7 years and yet most of the entire Western section is built and no one can use it.

This is made worse by the fact that the business class are not only getting a premium service but that this little luxury liner is taking up space on a important rail corridor. If the business class as so demanding then let them build it but not on public land that is to be used for transit. Just the fact this little thing is running means there will be constraints on the kind of service SmartTrack can provide. If SmartTrack gets going with high ridership and rush hour service gets down to every 8 minutes or so it would be nearly impossible to coordinate the 2 as one will have to stop far more frequently and the so-called fast Pearson express becomes a slow moving line.

SmartTrack needs this corridor for it's exclusive use to make it frequent and reliable and shouldn't have to be delayed or limit service for the less than 1%.

Tory really couldn't say anything bad about the line even if he hates it. The reality is that he is trying to get money out of senior levels of government and embarrassing them is not a good start. I still think that the entire line will be SmartTracks and the Eglinton portion will be an extension of the LRT to connect with MiWay Transitway, It not only makes the most sense but would be a hell of a lot cheaper and need far less construction time to boot.

 

[ssiguy2]

That chart is wrong for Vancouver.

It's $2.75 one way from downtown with the added $5 only when leaving the airport. Also it is part of the standard transit system so it's completely integrated. Taking that into account the UP is even more outrageously expensive but then Vancouver didn't spend taxpayers money to move business people who don't pay the fare anyway.

 

[mrgrieves]

I appreciate what you are saying but the reality is that if the tourist is travelling with just one other passenger then it's cheaper to take a cab especially true if they don't live within spitting distance of Union. The business class couldn't care less if the fare $1.50 or $150.........they won't pay for it regardless.

This line is an affront to the taxpayers of Ontario and the long suffering commuters of Toronto. This should just be a TTC service as part of SmartTrack. Amazing how some think SmartTrack won't work or can't be done in 7 years and yet most of the entire Western section is built and no one can use it.

This is made worse by the fact that the business class are not only getting a premium service but that this little luxury liner is taking up space on a important rail corridor. If the business class as so demanding then let them build it but not on public land that is to be used for transit. Just the fact this little thing is running means there will be constraints on the kind of service SmartTrack can provide. If SmartTrack gets going with high ridership and rush hour service gets down to every 8 minutes or so it would be nearly impossible to coordinate the 2 as one will have to stop far more frequently and the so-called fast Pearson express becomes a slow moving line.

SmartTrack needs this corridor for it's exclusive use to make it frequent and reliable and shouldn't have to be delayed or limit service for the less than 1%.

Tory really couldn't say anything bad about the line even if he hates it. The reality is that he is trying to get money out of senior levels of government and embarrassing them is not a good start. I still think that the entire line will be SmartTracks and the Eglinton portion will be an extension of the LRT to connect with MiWay Transitway, It not only makes the most sense but would be a hell of a lot cheaper and need far less construction time to boot.

I think general public awareness of the line will be low until it actually starts operating. Given the massive infrastructure deficit in the city, I can't imagine the line can operate in its planned form for very long. Public opinion will simply be too strong.

It will be a joke to talk about a "downtown relief line" when one will be in operation.

The question is, how long does it take to build "in-fill" stations at Liberty Village, St. Clair, etc? Is this something that can be done very fast (ie. 2 years)? If it can be completed by the end of Tory's first term, that would be a great "accomplishment" for him heading into re-election.

 

[nfitz]

This graph caught my interest

Is Toronto's air-rail link the priciest in North America?

That's an often unreliable website. For example, it lists the next most expensive as the train at JFK. However there is no train at JFK. What it really is Train + Metro, and you have to take the regular Long Island commuter train from Penn Station to Jamaica Center, and then transfer to the MTA ART (same technology as SRT and Vancouver Skytrain) line about 10 km from Jamaica to JFK. They show this fare to be about CAN$16.70. However, the US$15.50 is actually CAN$17.89 .

So $19 for direct 25-minute train to Pearson compared to $18 for using commuter trains and having to change to Skytrain in New York.

I daredn't start looking at their other entries, to see if they are all equally as biased.

 

[Markster]

That chart is wrong for Vancouver.

It's $2.75 one way from downtown with the added $5 only when leaving the airport.

I sure hope someone has told Translink that. Last time I was flying out of YVR, (2013) I got fare-checked entering Broadway station, and they made me put the extra $5 on my card.