Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[BurlOak]

Do we pay HST on top of our $3 transit fares? You don't pay HST on transit fares.

Edit: Re-reading this... my comment sounds rude. No rudeness intended!

I saw a tweet stating definitively that HST would be added to the announced fares. I was a bit dubious, so I thought I would ask.

That happy face prevented me from taking offence to your post .

 

[vegeta_skyline]

The report indicates the ridership survey showed 3% of airport workers were using the old Airport bus service to downtown. With 40,000 workers at the airport, that's 1,200 people, assuming the uptake doesn't increase.

Fair enough. Still that basically means what ssiguy2 is arguing(or at least part of his argument) is that the service should of been designed around the needs of 1,200 people in a city of 2.5 million.

 

[mdrejhon]

I saw a tweet stating definitively that HST would be added to the announced fares.

I wish HST stood for High Speed Train rather than Harmonized Sales Tax.

 

[nfitz]

Fair enough. Still that basically means what ssiguy2 is arguing(or at least part of his argument) is that the service should of been designed around the needs of 1,200 people in a city of 2.5 million.

It should be factored in. But not designed around.

Where's the line. King Streetcar only carries 50,000 a day. Do we not worry about that in a city of 2.5 million?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

It should be factored in. But not designed around.

Where's the line. King Streetcar only carries 50,000 a day. Do we not worry about that in a city of 2.5 million?

I think that's 40 times more worrisome then airport workers commuting from downtown. I look at it incrementally rather than there being a line in the sand. And besides I think $255 dollars per month is a pretty reasonable price to pay if you chose to live down town and commute daily to a location 20km away.

 

[gweed123]

One of the interesting aspects of the Presto vs non-Presto fare is that it could be an incentive for a lot of tourists to buy a Presto card, even if they will only be here for a couple days. Load it with your 2 airport fares and enough to cover a few trips on the TTC, and you have yourself a convenient (and cheaper) option that using cash or tokens.

Overall, I like the pricing though. The lower Presto fare is an incentive for locals to use UPX to get to the airport. The biggest thing that's missing IMO is some kind of co-fare arrangement with both GO and the TTC. Only people staying right downtown, within walking distance of one of the intermediate stations, or getting dropped off at a station are not going to be transferring from a different transit system. Logic would suggest that that crowd is a minority. Most people will either be taking the TTC or GO to Union, and then transferring onto UPX. Even if the TTC fare or the GO base fare was deducted when you tapped onto UPX, it would be a huge incentive for people to use it.

 

[TOareaFan]

One of the interesting aspects of the Presto vs non-Presto fare is that it could be an incentive for a lot of tourists to buy a Presto card, even if they will only be here for a couple days. Load it with your 2 airport fares and enough to cover a few trips on the TTC, and you have yourself a convenient (and cheaper) option that using cash or tokens.

I can actually see tourism companies packaging this with other "things to do in Toronto"......so a couple in Lima deciding to visit Toronto buy a package that includes return Presto trips, coupons to CN Tower/Aquarium/ROM/etc.....all mailed to them with their tickets and hotel reservations.

Overall, I like the pricing though. The lower Presto fare is an incentive for locals to use UPX to get to the airport.

Agree.

The biggest thing that's missing IMO is some kind of co-fare arrangement with both GO and the TTC. Only people staying right downtown, within walking distance of one of the intermediate stations, or getting dropped off at a station are not going to be transferring from a different transit system. Logic would suggest that that crowd is a minority. Most people will either be taking the TTC or GO to Union, and then transferring onto UPX. Even if the TTC fare or the GO base fare was deducted when you tapped onto UPX, it would be a huge incentive for people to use it.

I think the lack of co-fare is built into the presto pricing........you don't have to go too far back in this thread to see people confidently/surely saying the fare (for everyone) would be $25/27/29 (pick one).....now it is $19 and even adding a $3 TTC fare brings you to an all in cost of $22 which is well below the consensus estimates for what UPe was going to cost on its own.

Even my own predicted $22 price for UPe was off the mark because it is now $22 for UPe & TTC combined

 

[Markster]

Overall, I like the pricing though. The lower Presto fare is an incentive for locals to use UPX to get to the airport. The biggest thing that's missing IMO is some kind of co-fare arrangement with both GO and the TTC. Only people staying right downtown, within walking distance of one of the intermediate stations, or getting dropped off at a station are not going to be transferring from a different transit system. Logic would suggest that that crowd is a minority. Most people will either be taking the TTC or GO to Union, and then transferring onto UPX. Even if the TTC fare or the GO base fare was deducted when you tapped onto UPX, it would be a huge incentive for people to use it.

People haven't noticed this little tidbit in one of their documents:

More specifically, UP Express will be investigating additional first and last mile initiatives, which includes looking into establishing fare integration arrangements with GO Transit and the Toronto Transit Commission

So yes, they are looking at co-fares. I suspect they would be Presto-only.

 

[jozl]

Am I missing something? I seem to be the only one on this forum who thinks the announced fares are outrageously expensive. $27.50 is ridiculous. The $19 fare for Presto users is somewhat better but you need to have a Presto card (whatever that is). There are 2.8 million people in Toronto that are TTC users and the TTC doesn't offer Presto. So… a trip for 2 to Pearson from Union Station is $55 PLUS the cost of getting to Union Station (conservatively $6 for TTC much more by taxi) for a total of $61. REALLY?? I can get a Limo to pick me up at home, even give me a wake up call, and deliver me to Pearson for $55 and a lot less hassle. Why would I use the train? I used to travel to NYC fairly regularly for business. The train from Newark to Penn Station is only about $12.50 and it's further than Union is from Pearson. Are the people who priced this out of their minds???
Check the comments on the this Globe and Mail article. Looks like most people agree with me. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-union-pearson-express-train/article22020657/
The way I see it the province does what they do best… protect monopolies. They didn't want to undercut the Limo and Taxi monopolies. Sort of like protecting the Beer monopoly, the LCBO, the dairy marketing board and the egg marketing board. While most people are struggling to compete with the global marketplace the Ontario government protects those that can lobby hard and make big donations to political parties. Once in a while a bone is thrown to the rest of us. But I digress. I THINK $27.50 IS OUTRAGEOUS. I WILL NEVER USE THIS TRAIN AT THAT PRICE.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Presto not being used by people in Toronto is a very short term problem. $19 is the effective fare, which is right where i guessed it would be, between 15 and 20.

 

[dowlingm]

You cannot be serious, your like a broken record that won't stop. Exactly how many of those low wage earners do you think can afford to live downtown to being with??

Bingo.

 

[ssiguy2]

This system is exactly what the new Denver Airport Line will be. Started construction at roughly the same time, roughly the same distance, electrified, runs every 15 minutes from downtown to the airport using existing corridors but their's is part of the standard transit system which is what UPX should be. They built their system for the citizens to use while Toronto built theirs for tourists and business class and told the citizens to "shut up and take the bus".

 

[salsa]

Am I missing something? I seem to be the only one on this forum who thinks the announced fares are outrageously expensive.

Check out the Torontoist comments thread: http://torontoist.com/2014/12/heres-how-much-youll-pay-to-ride-the-up-express/#disqus_thread

 

[ksun]

Presto not being used by people in Toronto is a very short term problem. $19 is the effective fare, which is right where i guessed it would be, between 15 and 20.

I am actually fine with $19 (under $20 is acceptable to me as I live 10 minutes walk from Union station). But when exactly is Presto slated to be fully implemented on the TTC? I live by Queen station and it still doesn't have it.

 

[nfitz]

So… a trip for 2 to Pearson from Union Station is $55 PLUS the cost of getting to Union Station (conservatively $6 for TTC much more by taxi) for a total of $61.

Who in Toronto wouldn't have a Presto card once TTC get rids of tokens and passes? So cost is $38 + 5.40 on TTC for $43.40. You can't get taxi for $43.50.

The train from Newark to Penn Station is only about $12.50 and it's further than Union is from Pearson. Are the people who priced this out of their minds???

Newark International to Penn Station is about 14 km as the crow flies. Pearson to Union Station is about 18.5 km as the crow flies. US$12.50 is CAN$14.35

So $14.35 for 14 km is reasonable, and $19 for 18.5 km is out of their minds?

Surely you jest!

I THINK $27.50 IS OUTRAGEOUS. I WILL NEVER USE THIS TRAIN AT THAT PRICE.

Nor will I. Get a Presto card. You'll need it anyway once TTC eliminates tokens and passes.