Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Michael62 said:
What is the capacity of each train? Seems to me that even with standees, the train will hold about a 100 people. That means 400 people per hour, which will fill at most two flights per hour or one Virgin Atlantic Jumbo.
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I believed Oliver Moore at the Globe tweeted the 2-car had seating capacity for 60.

The other thing about your math: double it again, there people heading from the airport as well.
 
So the Presto card gets you a discount but your TTC pass doesn't? That's completely irrational.

It's good that they make the tourists and business class pay more than the average person but it won't make a hoot of difference to the people who work there. Many jobs at airports {contrary to popular belief} are low wage jobs. From security to cleaners to restaurant workers and even the flight attendants these fairs are still way out of their league. This is still nothing but a luxury liner for those who can afford it but for the vast majority, you know the taxpayers who actually built it, this will mean nothing and their commute hasn't improved one bit.

This was a real opportunity for the beginnings of the SmartTrack system. It could have been just given to the TTC and run as part of the standard subway system adding electrification and more stations as needed but alas the long suffering commuters of Toronto are still stuck waiting in the rain for the next packed airport bus. This is one of those political "it's not as bad as I thought" media props but it won't change anything. Very few in Toronto actually have a Presto card as most frequent transit users only have a TTC pass within the city itself.

Presto is a system that only makes any difference if you are crossing a transit boundary or take GO but relatively few in the city actually take GO because it's so damn expensive. The vast majority of transit users in the city have no need for Presto so they are still paying $29 bucks plus the cost of the fare to get to Union Station.

A Toronto $29 fare for 15 minute service or a Vancouver $4.50 fare that runs every 6 minutes.........hmmm, I wonder which Torontonians would prefer?
 
In a year from now, as a move against "it's a Mirabel white elephant, total government waste"...
...cue these predictable actions:

(A) Touting and tooting moments. Photos of overflowing UPX trains (which may only occur a few times, but enough times to be an 'issue'). Reports that this train use is "more popular than expected". Traffic numbers numbering several million. Talks of earlier-than-expected expansion, 3-car or 4-car trainsets, or increased peak frequency, blabla.
(B) Backpatting machines started up. Talk about how UPX and SmartTrack will cost-effectively share each other's tracks, saving money.
(C) Naysayer slayer squads gets released. UPX accounting tweaked to include SmartTrack accounting in a shared manner (because of shared track Union-Eglinton); making UPX 'look' cheaper than expected.
(D) Truckload of gold paint & reputational polish. Possible framing in a 'far-forward vision' perspective, similar to the formerly-useless load-bearing underground train track structure built into the Prince-Edward Viaduct (Bloor-Danforth bridge) constructed in year 1918, which was subsequently used for Bloor-Danforth subway decades later (former white elephant raised to far-forward thinking hero vision). As in twenty years from now, we witness GO RER / HSR / SmartTrack / UPX efficiently whooshing by in the same 4-to-6-track corridor that UPX helped pave/widen.

By itself, I really see UPX is an overpriced train initiative, stupendously costly for its benefits, and one that needs to continue to be tweaked to serve the population better. But they CAN make the best of this situation, and turn it into a huge Plus. We're stuck with it, so let's milk it for what it's worth. It may actually end up being a brilliant move after all, bringing an airport train to our city, along with its spinoff infrastructure along this corridor that actually does improve public transit. In the long term, I'm hoping UPX ends up genuinely brilliant in retrospect, they can't afford to make it a white elephant.

Doesn't stop me from becoming an enthusastic user.

Either way, looking forward to using UPX!
 
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I can't wait for the TTC to cut the Airport Rocket service saying "they can take the UPX". Also when the Georgetown line becomes much more frequent I can see someone creating a service that goes strictly from Pearson {both terminals} and charge a few bucks to get to Malton and save themselves 415 bucks on the one-way fare. Sounds crazy but people will do it just as they are now doing in Liberty Village.

You know the really crazy thing.............the HSR line to London is stated as wanting to keep the fares low, about $30 in todays money. Think about that, $30 to London or $30 to Pearson. This is made worse by the fact that Londoners will actually have a stop at Pearson so they fare will be reduced. in other words Londoners will be able to get to Pearson just as cheaply as Torontonians.
 
^ meant to say saving $15 by GO to Malton and local shuttle................the $ sign is getting sticky and keep coming up as a 4.
 
Markster said:
Comparing the final price to my back-of-the-envelope calculation several pages ago, It looks like I basically hit the Presto price dead on. Metrolinx makes their business case money back at the Presto price, and then anyone paying the non-Presto price is icing on the cake, moving the profitability date forward.
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However your costing included capital costs, and there break-even point is only for operation. And you included the now cancelled $1.85 GTAA parking fee. So your numbers were about 1/3 of the actual operating cost.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It's good that they make the tourists and business class pay more than the average person but it won't make a hoot of difference to the people who work there. Many jobs at airports {contrary to popular belief} are low wage jobs. From security to cleaners to restaurant workers and even the flight attendants these fairs are still way out of their league. This is still nothing but a luxury liner for those who can afford it but for the vast majority, you know the taxpayers who actually built it, this will mean nothing and their commute hasn't improved one bit.
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You cannot be serious, your like a broken record that won't stop. Exactly how many of those low wage earners do you think can afford to live downtown to being with?? A recent news report mentioned that 75% of the airports workforce actually comes from Peel region, basically Mississauga & Brampton. And only 3% commute to Person via the 192 airport express bus from Kipling, basically from the Subway. At best maybe 1-2% of the airport workforce lives downtown. And a good portion of those probably use a vehicle to commute. With this they will no longer need one to get to work and vehicle ownership is far more expensive than 255$ a month - the cost of a monthly pass for airport workers with the federal tax credit applied. So shut it, please.


Presto is a system that only makes any difference if you are crossing a transit boundary or take GO but relatively few in the city actually take GO because it's so damn expensive. The vast majority of transit users in the city have no need for Presto so they are still paying $29 bucks plus the cost of the fare to get to Union Station.
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So then get one. A presto card costs what? 6 bucks? Probably a little tight for your budget but it kind of makes sense if you plan on using the UP even once in your life since you'd save $8.50.
 
nfitz said:
However your costing included capital costs, and there break-even point is only for operation. And you included the now cancelled $1.85 GTAA parking fee. So your numbers were about 1/3 of the actual operating cost.
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I stand by factoring in a 20 year amortization of the capital costs as part of the business case for the fare structure. I don't see a good reason to ignore that.

Where do you read that the fares proposed are only expected to cover operations? (and/or, where are you getting an estimate of operating costs that is 3x my estimate?)
 
vegeta_skyline said:
At best maybe 1-2% of the airport workforce lives downtown. And a good portion of those probably use a vehicle to commute.
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The report indicates the ridership survey showed 3% of airport workers were using the old Airport bus service to downtown. With 40,000 workers at the airport, that's 1,200 people, assuming the uptake doesn't increase.

I doubt that most people working at the airport will use the UPX. But clearly some will, and it's good to see that they are given an option that isn't that much more expensive than the existing GO pass from Union to Malton.
 
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