kettal
Banned
did anybody attend the information session?
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
junctionist
Senior Member
GO trains go to Georgetown, not the airport. I assume Weston's leaders want residents to have that express option to the airport. Plenty of people in Weston can justify the fare when they fly somewhere alone. It would be approximately $11 one way from Weston, no? There's a strong middle class amidst Weston's large low income demographic and plenty of young people living in apartments who can pay the fare when they travel. Discount passes could be made available for employees as well.
There's also a different angle to this which I presume community leaders see as well. If business people and wealthy tourists have a direct trip to Weston, then there's a major impetus for economic development in the form of lodging, conference centres, and business centres. The stop can bring a lot wealth into an area that just doesn't see much economic development.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I don't know where you got that $11 fare? The only fare that I have ever had is that it will be +/- $22 from Union to Pearson........now that they have had a Weston stop forced on them, have the proponents of the Airport express train said anything about how they would manage it or price it? Did you just cut the full trip fare in half to arrive at $11?
Do you really believe this? That a simple stop on that train will spur hotel and conference centre construction in Weston?
junctionist
Senior Member
Indeed, I cut the $22 price in half and said "approximately $11". Isn't it logical that a signficantly shorter ride means a lower fare? That just follows the precedent of GO and virtually any other passenger railway service.
It takes zoning and marketing, but yes, rail services can spur community investment. Intensification happens around GO stations and subway stations, and with a presumably lower fare to Weston and a shorter distance to travel, I think the stop will encourage development in Weston if the ARL turns out to be popular and if Weston uses it effectively to promote itself. It might encourage more affluent people to live there as well. Without the stop, there's far less potential.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Depends how the operators look at it. They may, as you suggest, say $11 (or something like that) hoping it drives some ridership. They may, also, say "we never wanted a stop there.....so if we charge, for example, $18 and can show that no one gets on or off there then we can go back after a year or so and get permission to turn the service back to what we planned.....a direct link from downtown to the airport"
Who knows, but I just wasn't sure if I had missed some announcement about the fare.
Anyone know what a cab to the airport costs from there? That will be the test of any fare on this train. If it does not significantly better the cab fair from there to the airport then it will likely lose.
I have no doubt that train stations (with frequent and full service) can spur intensification. I just can't, for the life of me, see anyone building hotel(s) or conference/convention facilities here just because this train stops here. At either end of the ARL will be massive collections of hotel and conference facilities........not sure what anyone's business case would be to plunk one or more down in the middle.
rbt
Senior Member
The added time and fuel may well cost more than $22 for a single person pickup. It is entirely possible the fare could be higher than from Union simply so they never need to stop.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
For the record I do support GO train service to the airport, though I'm not sure if that will happen. The Eglinton LRT line will (was supposed to at least) serve the airport as well, so that provides an option for Weston residents.
Prometheus The Supremo
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there will be no GO rail connection to the airport and the eglinton LRT connection to the airport got chopped.
TOareaFan
Superstar
GO could easily service the airport by treating it as an extension of the Malton Station and by redeploying some of the buses that get freed up on the Georgetown corrider after the rail expansion.
So, every train that pulls into Malton (in either direction) there is a GO bus waiting to take them to the terminals....then that bus loops back with new passengers and takes them to Malton.
Then passengers will have a real option from Union. $22 (or whatever it is) for the ARL direct link. or +/- $6 for a not so direct link that needs a change to a bus.
Riders/passengers will then have the freedom to "value" the service/convenience that the ARL offers.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
a) that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be servicing the airport. It should, see TOAreaFan's comments above for discussion
b) WCC isn't petetioning for a GO connection to the airport which would likely be better for that community. Instead they demand that the ARL which is targeting a completely different demographic stop in their comunity. Why?
Prometheus The Supremo
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a) i'm not 100% sure, but i think GO transit trains aren't allowed to service the airport due to some agreement with blue 22 wanting exclusive rights. also, taking a GO train to a nearby GO station and then taking the GO bus to the airport is a pain the ass.
b) the WCC has petitioned alot of things. they got an ARL station instead. the ARL exclusive business class service is not expected to survive because of the limited demographic it is targeting, by its own numbers. unless the government subsidizes the operation of the line, you can expect the prices to drop and the service will be able to cater to a wider demographic. couple this with the prospect that GO train service at weston station will not increase much even though there will be all day service on the georgetown line and the station becomes a means to get downtown for the locals.
i've heard that because they will be building an eglinton GO station, eglinton will get most of the GO trains stopping there. all those extra GO trains on the georgetown line won't even stop in weston. they'll just pass right through.
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Locking GO out of the airport would be a mistake IMHO. Furthermore I thought public subsidies of this "private" line were bad, now we're encouraging it?
rbt
Senior Member
You're nearly a decade too late to complain about this one.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Prometheus The Supremo said:
Since GO is allowed to run trains to Malton...nothing changes there. GO also runs buses from York Mills to the airport so there is no reason they could not run buses from Malton....so even if GO is forbidden from running trains directly into the airport there is no reason they can't run buses from Malton.
Sure switching from a train to a bus is not ideal but customers/passengers will have 3 choices to get to the airport and they can make their individual pick based on convenience and cost:
1....Bus only to the airport....convenient (TTC or GO from York Mills or Airport Express from the Royal York)....various costs and speeds but no need to switch modes;
2. GO Train to Malton then to a bus......little less convenient (because of the mode switch) but probably faster (since most of the journey is by rail and not dealing with traffic) cost around $6
3. Direct train....fastest, most convenient but also most expensive at + $22.
That is not a bad mix of options for getting to the airport from downtown. (IMO) and each will have their own convenience/speed/price combination and the public/customers can decide which mix suits them best.
Darwinkgo
Active Member
There is no way the Airport Express bus will survive after the direct train route comes in. Whittling down their potential market by taking out everyone that is willing to pay $8 more for half the travel time will be a huge blow.
It might be possible for it to survive running from more outlying core hotels and the Universities but I wouldn't count on it.
Also, as for GO running a bus from Malton to the airport, I don't think it is that likely given the cost recovery GO services need to operate under. The dwell times just kill the route. Plus, does GO want a bunch of people toting luggage to fill up their commuter trains on a relatively low yield run?
It might be possible for it to survive running from more outlying core hotels and the Universities but I wouldn't count on it.
Also, as for GO running a bus from Malton to the airport, I don't think it is that likely given the cost recovery GO services need to operate under. The dwell times just kill the route. Plus, does GO want a bunch of people toting luggage to fill up their commuter trains on a relatively low yield run?