jje1000
Senior Member
Casino =/= more conventions
Quality of convention space + afforable prices = more conventions
Quality of clubs + dining + shopping = more conventions
A new convention space and a casino are not mutually inclusive.
Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli
- Thread starter Conrad Black
- Start date
Casino =/= more conventions
Quality of convention space + afforable prices = more conventions
Quality of clubs + dining + shopping = more conventions
A new convention space and a casino are not mutually inclusive.
fedplanner
Active Member
^ your post is true except for the first point. A casino would definetky bring more conventions the city (or at least that area of the city) for the same reason as your third point.
I've planned a few small scale events ranging from 20 to 100 guests in my time. Price is always the largest factor followed by proximity to bars, restaraunts, and entertainment. You want people to enjoy themselves and have fun in their offtine. There is nothing worse than going to a convention in some suburban hellhole where there is nothing fun to do after hours and you need a car to get around.
I've planned a few small scale events ranging from 20 to 100 guests in my time. Price is always the largest factor followed by proximity to bars, restaraunts, and entertainment. You want people to enjoy themselves and have fun in their offtine. There is nothing worse than going to a convention in some suburban hellhole where there is nothing fun to do after hours and you need a car to get around.
fedplanner
Active Member
This is probably a really bad example but...
There is a reason why the U.S. General Services Administration (GSA) has had their annual "conference" in Vegas and not some place more economical.
There is a reason why the U.S. General Services Administration (GSA) has had their annual "conference" in Vegas and not some place more economical.
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fedplanner
Active Member
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Sobering perspective on our potential "Supertalls" compared to the global height extravaganza.
dougtoronto
New Member
That's depressing.
Critique
Active Member
Lol
Toronto the modest...but then again most of those cities have the population, economy, and money to build such huge supertalls.
Also, Toronto missed its chance to be on that list (atleast for now) due to our acceptance of substandard, cheap condos from the beginning of the condo boom. No point in us building megatalls any time soon when we are already full of cheap spandrel.
Toronto the modest...but then again most of those cities have the population, economy, and money to build such huge supertalls.
Also, Toronto missed its chance to be on that list (atleast for now) due to our acceptance of substandard, cheap condos from the beginning of the condo boom. No point in us building megatalls any time soon when we are already full of cheap spandrel.
Ryan_T
Senior Member
Appearance of such megatalls in TO would be weird and detrimental. It's not time yet.
Maybe once all our roads, transit, and utilities are in order....
Maybe once all our roads, transit, and utilities are in order....
fedplanner
Active Member
Yeah, it's not time yet. Building heights have been steadily increasing.
Toronto's tallest proposal by floor count this year was 86-stories. There were about a dozen more above 60. Anyone know what was proposed in prior years?
EDIT - it might be easier to do this analysis using year built.
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drum118
Superstar
Not really when you look at what Paris, London, Madrid, Berlin, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Prague etc have today that would put Toronto at the top like above.
It would be nice to see a 100 storey building in this city.
renvel
Active Member
supertall
China , for sure , but what about Dubai , Rijad ,Taipej etc?
... And comparison of Toronto tall structures had been made to mega and supertalls from many places all around the world , not one particular city.
But I respect your work & opinion anyways...
China , for sure , but what about Dubai , Rijad ,Taipej etc?
... And comparison of Toronto tall structures had been made to mega and supertalls from many places all around the world , not one particular city.
But I respect your work & opinion anyways...
Mithras
Active Member
Oxford has significant experience looking at and planning podiums over rail lines as they have just broken ground with Related Co. on the Hudson Yard project in NYC. The cost of covering the rails there will be approx. $3 billion... That's probably why they don't consider purchasing the air rights to be a big deal or hurdle even if it DOES cost a few million to CP/CN. If you want a look at what the park would probably look like (and the retail mall component), go to the Hudson Yards site.
The convention centre and the casino are intrinsically linked. Linked due to hotel space. You need hotel space for both and a couple of hotels built on site are necessary for conventions to thrive. Oxford also has a hotel portfolio so this plays to their strengths as well.
Oxford, owners of the most upscale mall in the country (Yorkdale) would not be targeting target or Walmart for the site. They just don't pay enough and are not a draw to the rest of the tenant mi that they would plan. Again look at their Hudson Yards retail. One rendering had Harvey Nichols in it. Imagine a street level retail mall with Nordstroms and Harvey Nic's along with a bloor st. type street shopping scape and a half dozen restaurants all linked to the rogers centre, the aquarium, the CN tower and a great outdoor public space. All on transit and within the downtown core.
The convention centre and the casino are intrinsically linked. Linked due to hotel space. You need hotel space for both and a couple of hotels built on site are necessary for conventions to thrive. Oxford also has a hotel portfolio so this plays to their strengths as well.
Oxford, owners of the most upscale mall in the country (Yorkdale) would not be targeting target or Walmart for the site. They just don't pay enough and are not a draw to the rest of the tenant mi that they would plan. Again look at their Hudson Yards retail. One rendering had Harvey Nichols in it. Imagine a street level retail mall with Nordstroms and Harvey Nic's along with a bloor st. type street shopping scape and a half dozen restaurants all linked to the rogers centre, the aquarium, the CN tower and a great outdoor public space. All on transit and within the downtown core.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Good first post Mithras and welcome to the forum
Many here are just as excited about this massive development but unfortunately dont support the (5%/10%) casino part of it...therefore they won't compromise and couldnt care less if it gets built, i dont get it
Many here are just as excited about this massive development but unfortunately dont support the (5%/10%) casino part of it...therefore they won't compromise and couldnt care less if it gets built, i dont get it
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Hanlansboy
Active Member
I wouldn't say it's not time yet, after all, the CN Tower was built when the core had but a few tall towers. It stuck out like a sore thumb (yeah, I'm that old, I still remember it's opening day). But, over time, the core grew up around it, and it's now our icon, without which we couldn't identify out skyline (seriously, ever try removing it from the picture and see if you can identify our skyline?). Personally, I think it's not so much a matter of it being time, more over, a matter of lack of reason and/or finances for such a project. I have no doubt that when sizeable supertall or megatall is finally built, it will, in time, compliment our skyline, with new projects built around it. We just need to find a Saudi oil billionaire with a little spare change to put my theory to the test, any takers? Lol!
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Companies, organizations, and institutions matter. Buildings don't. Many of those mega-tall buildings we are admiring here are essentially half-empty boondoggles subsidized by megalomaniac governments and princes. Take a look at the financials of some of those megatalls. Even the established ones in more rational markets like Taipei (which incidentally is bigger than Toronto) don't make sense.
Who is creating the next important company, organization or institution in Toronto? If you can't give me an answer to that question there is no rational argument to be made that super-tall buildings belong in this cities future.
Who is creating the next important company, organization or institution in Toronto? If you can't give me an answer to that question there is no rational argument to be made that super-tall buildings belong in this cities future.