Toronto The Quay, Tower Three (was Maple Leaf Quay) | 66.44m | 21s | Pacific Reach | BDP Quadrangle

Waterloo_Guy said:
Who cares? It's called progress. I sincerely hope that every skyline view of Toronto is gone in 10 years and replaced with something new.
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All I wish is that new buildings would be built to last, would have quality architecture, and that infrastructure would better keep up with the city's growth so that Toronto can still be liveable. This fetish about the skyline by some people is not important in the slightest.
 
I really don't get how some of you think a city's skyline is not important. It defines a city, it is a landscape, landscapes are important to the "Canadian Identity"
 
stjames2queenwest said:
I really don't get how some of you think a city's skyline is not important. It defines a city, it is a landscape, landscapes are important to the "Canadian Identity"
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Agree. Skyscrapers are the modern representation of who we are as a society. What cathedrals, palaces, and castles once represented have been replaced by these edifices to power, influence, affluence, technological know how, ambition, and design.

Skylines instantly mark a city's status. Even old guard European cities are falling in line to this reality. An impressive skyline isn't always mirrored at street level but most of the time it is.
 
Waterloo_Guy said:
Fair point. What I was trying to say is that I don't think there is any one Canadian identity that we all agree with. I don't think everyone has the same perspective on what it means to be Canadian.
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^ Disagree. Surely being a Canadian means sharing a common set of ideals and social beliefs and not based on racial, religious, etc. concepts. For example, being an American seems to be primarily based on the rights of the individual (i.e. gun control) whereas in Canada, we are more focused on what is better for the society as a whole (i.e. health care).
 
jsjaker said:
^ Disagree. Surely being a Canadian means sharing a common set of ideals and social beliefs and not based on racial, religious, etc. concepts. For example, being an American seems to be primarily based on the rights of the individual (i.e. gun control) whereas in Canada, we are more focused on what is better for the society as a whole (i.e. health care).
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I disagree. I think it's unlikely that all Canadians share common values and ideals, and equally unlikely of Americans. One only need watch American media to see how strongly they disagree on such things. Canadians don't seem to get as heated up about it for some reason. Nonetheless I can tell you that I certainly disagree with some of the values that the media and political elites tell us we should support, and I certainly disagree with some of the left-leaning values seemingly held by most on this forum. Am I still Canadian?

Unless only some citizens count as proper Canadians, I think the idea of a common Canadian identity falls flat.
 
We don't get heated up because we as Canadians are less reactionary and , I think, less black or white and more grey when discussing issues. This chatter about the elites is a right wing ideal meant to divide and conquer those they disagree with. In fact we are less right or left but mostly middle. Meanwhile this talk of skylines and patriotism is simply ridiculous.
 
Waterloo_Guy said:
I disagree. I think it's unlikely that all Canadians share common values and ideals, and equally unlikely of Americans. One only need watch American media to see how strongly they disagree on such things. Canadians don't seem to get as heated up about it for some reason. Nonetheless I can tell you that I certainly disagree with some of the values that the media and political elites tell us we should support, and I certainly disagree with some of the left-leaning values seemingly held by most on this forum. Am I still Canadian?

Unless only some citizens count as proper Canadians, I think the idea of a common Canadian identity falls flat.
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I agree with the general gist that there is no one single, universal value at face value (nobody, not even exceedingly homogeneous countries like Japan can claim that). Having said that, there are certain subset of values among the greatest majority of the populace that is held, consciously or subconsciously, as common values and ideals - rule of law, safety and security of individuals, systematic and overt discrimination to the point of exploitation being anathema, etc.

An important thing to note is that individuals may say they don't believe in it because of their views and beliefs - but they most definitely expect it in return. Such expectation betrays their true attitude towards these Canadian values.

Anyways, OT topic - bringing it back to the proposal and skyline - the latter has value, but saying changing it constitute an assault to identity is probably going too far (especially when it isn't like we're tearing anything down) - it would be like someone at the turn of the century claiming that replacing church steeples with office buildings; or TD Centre displacing Royal York or 30s Art Deco towers. My issue with the project is that it is mediocre, uninspiring like the rest of the waterfront architecturally speaking (with exceptions).

AoD
 
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... what is going to OMB ? Is it just the tower - or also the proposed extensions on the two buildings.
 
Waterloo_Guy said:
Fair point. What I was trying to say is that I don't think there is any one Canadian identity that we all agree with. I don't think everyone has the same perspective on what it means to be Canadian.
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The idea of Canada and Canadianism is still evolving and a young concept. I find the younger generation that grew up under the Canadian Constitution and Charter of Rights have a far clearer sense of what it means that older people.

In the past Canadians defined themselves by what we're not (American). It's a tired viewpoint that sells ourselves short. The idea that there are only two solitudes, American or British, is another in that same vein.

Canada has carved out its own identity separate from both the US and the UK. Our Constitution, Charter, enshrined multi-culturalism, how we define our nationality, our flag, and our national demeanour all mark us as Canadians. I'm a child of the Charter. I don't define my nationality based on language, religion, playing hockey or any other agreed upon past time/behaviour. It's a belief in multi-culturalism, a shared set of values as dictated by the Charter, and by the flag. That's a very new way of defining one's nationality that's diametrically opposed to traditional definitions one sees in Europe or the US. Are we the world's first post modern country? I'd say we are.

I find that people who struggle with the concept of Canada are either older, resist this new modern idea of Canada, or have just never given it much thought.
 
Here's a pic of the proposal site from the island.

quayuf3.jpg
 

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Kitsune said:
... what is going to OMB ? Is it just the tower - or also the proposed extensions on the two buildings.
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All three are the same application with zero new parking, and demo's 43 existing parking spaces. No improvements to the basin I can see other than a few new umbrellas in the renderings.
 
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