Toronto TeaHouse 501 Yonge Condominiums | 170.98m | 52s | Lanterra | a—A

Yonge Street can't be destroyed, you're being over dramatic. - It's our Main commercial corridor and it's bigger retailers are moving in from Yonge and Dundas (commercial 1) And Yorkville (commercial 2) and closing the gap that sits between them moving down Yonge Street from opposite directions. - All these condos are going to do is provide more high end space for more high end retail to move into areas they couldn't locate before because there wasn't proper space. - Now they will get that luxury space they've been looking for.

Case in point Aura, moving the Yonge-Dundas commercial sector moving north to meet up with College Park.

Only some street kids and garbage shops between college and Wellesley to clean up and we'll have a perfect street.
 
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If it were not for Buddies, could the developers could have made some arrangement with the city to bury the parking underneath the adjacent parkette? Also, with the Wellesley parking lot kitty corner to this development, excavation one level down and installation of a garage and tunnel to the condo might have also resolved the need for a podium garage. Im not naive - I realize land ownership, codes, costs, and politics renders this unlikely, but there are imaginable solutions...
 
kkgg7 said:
Bay street is 99% residential with no life whatsoever while Yonge Street is full of various retail stores. How does a few condos towers make Yonge st what is Bay today, particularly when new retail will be added at the base?

Do you really think those crappy souvenir/discount stores, horrible sushi restaurants and "Quick Cash" offices add life and vibrancy to Yonge St? When was the last time you shopped in any of those? Yonge st is Toronto's most important street with one of our two subway lines running under it, anyone who expects it to remain in its current 2-3 storeyed low rise dominating condition must be out of his mind. It will be overhauled whether you like it or not. 2-3 storey small narrow houses will gradually be replaced by 30-80 storey towers, particularly between Gerrard and Bloor. Yonge is where high density is supposed to be. It is stupid and a waste of space for, for example, the intersection of Yonge and Maitland, to be occupied by a two storey T-shirt store and a one-storey Mexican restaurant no one ever visits.

If you prefer small lower rise "historic" houses, outside the core area between Church and Spadina, doesn't 99% of the city already looks exactly like that? Bay street is dead not because there are many high rise condos, it is due to the utter lack of any retail space. That IS a lesson we need to learn when planning for other streets.
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Good grief. In response to your screed, let me offer the following:

1. Bay Street is most definitely not 99% residential and so I'm not sure where you scrounged up that statistic.
2. One of the reasons Bay Street has little vibrancy is that it is filled with retail that only serves the needs of the condo owners (dry-cleaning, convenience stores, etc.). There is nothing about Bay Street that draws pedestrians from outside the neighbourhood. Say what you will about the quality of the stores on Yonge, the street does draw traffic and is succesful in that sense.
3. I never proposed the status quo of 2 to 3 storey buildings. I recognize that Yonge needs to be revitalized and that teh city is undergoing a project of intensification. I do, however, have many issues with the proposals for 501 Yonge Street, which I have cited in previous postings.
4. "A few condo towers" does not capture the scale of what is being proposed for Yonge between Gerrard and Bloor. According to Kristyn Wong-Tam there are plans for at least 8 major towers in the corridor, with more to follow.
 
TonyV said:
^Homer, I get it, I get your point. And there are things I miss a lot, for example I miss being able to see the back of the Royal York, which is beautifully detailed, and I remember my disappointment as the more recent buildings on Wellington blocked it.

In fact, I had the kind of mom who took me to see things like the Temple (IOF) Building at Bay and Richmond before it got torn down ("I wanna make sure you see this before it goes, dear"), so I guess this sort of thing is in my DNA.

Having said all of that, I embrace reality. Those stores you write about are gone, history. Toronto's official word is "change". My perspective is that citizens must insist on good, win-win change. There must have been some lessons learned by now.
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Oh I agree and I have no problem with change but I guess I am afraid the base of condos will all have the same stores. Ever notice that no matter what city you go to in Canada the suburbs all have the same stores in a plaza. Walmart, Best Buy/Future Shop, Mark's Warhouse, Montana's... That is why I only visit city centres because they are generally all different from each other. I guess I am afraid that a condo boom in all these cities will result in all the city centres looking basically the same with the same stores and no character to separate them like the suburbs do.
 
caltrane74 said:
Yonge Street can't be destroyed, you're being over dramatic. - It's our Main commercial corridor and it's bigger retailers are moving in from Yonge and Dundas (commercial 1) And Yorkville (commercial 2) and closing the gap that sits between them moving down Yonge Street from opposite directions. - All these condos are going to do is provide more high end space for more high end retail to move into areas they couldn't locate before because there wasn't proper space. - Now they will get that luxury space they've been looking for.

Case in point Aura, moving the Yonge-Dundas commercial sector moving north to meet up with College Park.

Only some street kids and garbage shops between college and Wellesley to clean up and we'll have a perfect street.
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The idea of "high end retail" replacing all of the holes in the walls on Yonge street is a not something I look forward to. I can't get over how many people on this forum celebrate the purging of grit from Toronto's downtown core.
 
AlphaTO said:
Good grief. In response to your screed, let me offer the following:

1. Bay Street is most definitely not 99% residential and so I'm not sure where you scrounged up that statistic.
2. One of the reasons Bay Street has little vibrancy is that it is filled with retail that only serves the needs of the condo owners (dry-cleaning, convenience stores, etc.). There is nothing about Bay Street that draws pedestrians from outside the neighbourhood. Say what you will about the quality of the stores on Yonge, the street does draw traffic and is succesful in that sense.
3. I never proposed the status quo of 2 to 3 storey buildings. I recognize that Yonge needs to be revitalized and that teh city is undergoing a project of intensification. I do, however, have many issues with the proposals for 501 Yonge Street, which I have cited in previous postings.
4. "A few condo towers" does not capture the scale of what is being proposed for Yonge between Gerrard and Bloor. According to Kristyn Wong-Tam there are plans for at least 8 major towers in the corridor, with more to follow.
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well, dry-cleaning and some corner store should hardly be defined "retail". When I say retail, I mean stores selling clothes, music, books etc as well as sit-i restaurants, bars and movie theatres that attractive people from elsewhere. In that sense, Bay street is indeed 99% residential, not unlike a pure suburb in Scarborough or Markham.

Yonge street is not really "successful". There are very few full fledged commercial street in Toronto to start with and people have to buy things. Plus, the subway in right underneath, where people can go to shop besides Yonge street? The stretch between Dundas to Bloor is basically a total failure. It is by no means what the main street in a city the size of Toronto should be.

8 major condo towers? Fantastic. They will bring in more people. I just hope it is not all condo. Why not office towers, hotels, and I'd love to see a department store as well. Right now, the Maitland-Charles stretch on Yonge is just too small town-ish. I hope the Five condo, Yonge 501, plus the existing ones on Charles St etc will change that. The population between the Bay/Church-Gerrard/Charles corridor should double or triple to form a super dense neighbourhood.

Toronto's biggest advantage over major American cities is that people actually want to live downtown and enjoy it. Let's make the best use of it.
 
kkgg7 said:
Toronto's biggest advantage over major American cities is that people actually want to live downtown and enjoy it.
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Not if you have your way.

well, dry-cleaning and some corner store should hardly be defined "retail". When I say retail, I mean stores selling clothes, music, books etc as well as sit-i restaurants, bars and movie theatres that attractive people from elsewhere.
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Oh, ok. When I say "car", what I really mean is "train".
 
kkgg7:

Did you ask yourself why people actually wanted to live in downtown? I think you need to review the history of urban planning in the city before commenting further.

re: 8 towers

It's less about the number and more about how these towers are integrated into the low scale streetscape. I am not going to play this high density = bad game, just as I am not willing to side with those who believe high density by default equates to unimaginative point towers.

AoD
 
kkgg7 said:
well, dry-cleaning and some corner store should hardly be defined "retail". When I say retail, I mean stores selling clothes, music, books etc as well as sit-i restaurants, bars and movie theatres that attractive people from elsewhere. In that sense, Bay street is indeed 99% residential, not unlike a pure suburb in Scarborough or Markham.
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The condo strip on Bay Street has plenty of government, medical and office buildings in there along with a church - even a hotel tower. It's nowhere near 99% residential. Sadly, movie theatres are gone for good and book stores & music stores will soon be history too. Bars cause neighbours to complain because of late night noise and restaurants aren't allowed in many 80's & 90's condos due to food odor problems, that has changed in the last decade or so with newer buildings.

kkgg7 said:
Yonge street is not really "successful". There are very few full fledged commercial street in Toronto to start with and people have to buy things. Plus, the subway in right underneath, where people can go to shop besides Yonge street? The stretch between Dundas to Bloor is basically a total failure. It is by no means what the main street in a city the size of Toronto should be.
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Have you actually walked along Yonge Street or do you look at pictures? Like many other great walkable streets in Toronto, it succeeds very well. If you want The Body Shop, Eddie Bauer, Birks and that type of retail go to the Eaton Centre and pay more!

kkgg7 said:
8 major condo towers? Fantastic. They will bring in more people. I just hope it is not all condo. Why not office towers, hotels, and I'd love to see a department store as well. Right now, the Maitland-Charles stretch on Yonge is just too small town-ish. I hope the Five condo, Yonge 501, plus the existing ones on Charles St etc will change that. The population between the Bay/Church-Gerrard/Charles corridor should double or triple to form a super dense neighbourhood.
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Too small town-ish? I'm now convinced you haven't set foot on Yonge Street.

kkgg7 said:
Toronto's biggest advantage over major American cities is that people actually want to live downtown and enjoy it. Let's make the best use of it.
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Agreed. Let's keep the downtown livable and walkable and stop these highrise towers from going up where they do not belong with sane planning policies. 460 & 501 Yonge is not smart planning, yet I am resigned for what will come.
 
When I say retail, I mean stores selling clothes, music, books etc as well as sit-i restaurants, bars and movie theatres that attractive people from elsewhere.
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Oh, so you kind of mean like Yonge Street.

Yonge street is not really "successful".
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Have you actually walked the street? Are you even from the city? Yonge is filled with pedestrian traffic and yes with people who buy things.

Toronto's biggest advantage over major American cities is that people actually want to live downtown and enjoy it.
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Yes, that's very true and there are reasons for that. The city is in essence a collection of neighbourhoods, built on a human scale and each with individuated identities. People enjoy living and working in Toronto. Your wishes for the city would unravel the fabric of its success.
 
I don't see how a couple of point towers bringing thousands of new and commited community members will unravel the urban fabric of the existing neighborhoods in which they are constructed. Infact they might do a lot for preserving what has been built before.
 
How are condo dwellers by default "committed" community members? Just because there are condos doesn't make a place special or vibrant (read Bay Street or Cityplace).

AoD
 
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What makes people in the existing condos more special or more committed community members than those that have yet to arrive?

How is a rundown retail plaza any better than a condo project that will bring space for better retail options, as well as a massive public art component?
 
caltrane74 said:
I don't see how a couple of point towers bringing thousands of new and commited community members will unravel the urban fabric of the existing neighborhoods in which they are constructed. Infact they might do a lot for preserving what has been built before.
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My immediate concern caltrane is how these proposed buildings affect this low-rise section of Yonge street (especially the 501 monster) and more importantly, the precedent that they set for the north downtown Yonge area. That there are eight more proposals that we don't have details on yet is proof that more is yet to come, though I'm hoping they are on off streets like Charles E., Wellesley E./W. etc. or setback, and not on Yonge Street.
 
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