Toronto Tableau Condominiums | 124.05m | 36s | Urban Capital | Wallman Architects

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Parkdalian said:
I hope they don't kill the Entertainment District, but that's because I wish they were vomiting on Peter Street, and not in my 'hood. Keep your "vibrancy" in the ED!

This area of King Street is really destined to become a new Yorkville. It's inevitable. King West already has the Yorkville-like nightlife. The retailers simply have to wake up to the trend.
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Not a chance. Yorkville is on the edge of downturn, on 2 subways lines, adjacent to the ROM, the Gardiner, Parlimament, the Annex, U of T and abuts Forest Hill and Rosedale, the two wealthiest residential neighborhoods in the city. King Street is desirable no doubt but lives in a tight, congested and inaccessible hub that attracts much more of a limited crowd. King West is more self-contained which is fine but limits its appeal.

When tourists come to Toronto I doubt very much they will wonder into King West unless the concierge at their hotel (probably in Yorkville) recommends they go somewhere there for dinner. I see King West has the potential (unrealized as of yet) to be more like SOHO if retailers follow the condos, but certainly not 5th Avenue.

Back on topic, Great design by Wallman although I personally find the street level podium too intrusive and the area borderline undesirable today. Perhaps in 5 years that will change.
 
CN Tower said:
Not a chance. Yorkville is on the edge of downturn, on 2 subways lines, adjacent to the ROM, the Gardiner, Parlimament, the Annex, U of T and abuts Forest Hill and Rosedale, the two wealthiest residential neighborhoods in the city. King Street is desirable no doubt but lives in a tight, congested and inaccessible hub that attracts much more of a limited crowd. King West is more self-contained which is fine but limits its appeal.

When tourists come to Toronto I doubt very much they will wonder into King West unless the concierge at their hotel (probably in Yorkville) recommends they go somewhere there for dinner. I see King West has the potential (unrealized as of yet) to be more like SOHO if retailers follow the condos, but certainly not 5th Avenue.

Back on topic, Great design by Wallman although I personally find the street level podium too intrusive and the area borderline undesirable today. Perhaps in 5 years that will change.
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[eye roll] If you are going to dispute my assertions, make sure you are understanding what I'm saying before you respond. Did I say Yorkville would be replaced? No. I said it would be like Yorkville - ie, high-end retail and such.

Your easy-peasy characterization of Yorkville = Fifth Avenue and King West will equal SoHo is sort of simplistic, too. Winners is smackdab in the middle of our "Fifth Avenue". And many of the trendier, mass market SoHo-like boutiques are currently in Yorkville. Not to mention that many high end retailers in NYC are on Fifth Avenue, in SoHo, Chelsea and the LES. Comparisons to NY are always a bit of a stretch 'cause Toronto ain't the centre of the Western World. NYC has seven Marc Jacobs outlets: Toronto has a boutique in Holt's.

Also, King West is not even remotely inaccesible! Yorkville is more of a shlep for people, say, coming from Porter. King West is also conveniently located next to the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts, the Theatre District, TIFF's Lightbox, Roy Thomson Hall, the CN Tower, The Metro Toronto Convention Centre, The Rogers Centre, the waterfront, etc, etc. Yorkville is for the oldies who need to be close to their Chanel outlet lest they lose hope in civilization and perish. If that's what you mean by "Fifth Avenue", then I agree. But that's also not going against what I said.
 
It didn't take Shayne Dark ( or will those be Shayne Dark look-alike fries with your condo, sir? ) long to become the Kosso Eloul of the 2010s, did it?
 
I bought into the King West area because it straddles so many vibrant disticts, is more centrally located to everything this city has to offer, has lots of great independant retailers and businesses, is constanting growing and improving, and it appeals to the younger crowd. I could walk to so many great restaurants and bars, Chinatown, TIFF and theatres, Rogers Center, and on a nice day it's a pleasant walk to Bloor Street (or I could take the Spadina street car).
The Yorkville area is nice, but how often am I going to dine at Opus or shop at HR? I think the traffic and congestion on Bloor Street is far worse than King Street (though much of it is due to its enternal street construction).
Yorkville is getting extremely expensive and it's funny that some condo developments claim they are in the Yorkville area, though it's a far stretch and not as nice as King West.

Anyways, back to Tableau:
Looks like the first three floors is going to be street-level retail with commercial/office above that, so that grand covered entry will serve both the residents, businesses and the public. Hopefully this element will survive to construction.
 
Parkdalian said:
Also, King West is not even remotely inaccesible! Yorkville is more of a shlep for people, say, coming from Porter. King West is also conveniently located next to the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts, the Theatre District, TIFF's Lightbox, Roy Thomson Hall, the CN Tower, The Metro Toronto Convention Centre, The Rogers Centre, the waterfront, etc, etc. Yorkville is for the oldies who need to be close to their Chanel outlet lest they lose hope in civilization and perish. If that's what you mean by "Fifth Avenue", then I agree. But that's also not going against what I said.
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Yorkville feeds the entire City's need for luxury. It will only continue to do so because it is so central. King West now fills the late 20's crowd need for hipness. That may easily fade because it is not central. Yes, it is close to Porter and we all know how much traffic Porter generates per year compared to Pearson. The Four Seasons Centre is a short subway ride from Yorkville. Where is the Four Seasons though? Can't believe you are using proximity to the Rogers Centre as something that people would find appealing!

KW is on the western edge of downtown and it is ridicuously congested. There are 2 subway lines into Yorkville! How can you get more accessible than that? If you count the Spadina line that's 3! Perhaps to someone living in Parkdale everything north of Queen appears suburban but Toronto is big place.

There are no flawless Toronto to New York comparison but you are right- King West to SOHO is probably off. More like the remotely located but ultra-trendy Lower East Side.

Great neighborhood but peaking as we debate. At best it maintains it's role as a good restaurant destination with a handful of trendy lounges with some slightly upscale condo buildings. Personally I think Leslieville has a better future with great visionaries like Streetcar.

Back to Tableau- it remains to be seen if they can overcome the weekend crime stigma attached to this neighbourhood. Time will tell.
 
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Irishmonk said:
The developers of The Ritz, Trump, Shangri-La and Thompson Hotel feel otherwise. Care to have this debate with them?
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I would love to have that discussion with any of them! Put me on the panel :D

In fact, the question of why premium brands such as Ritz and Shangri-La would choose such odd locations has come up often in my circles. Trump is a whole other debate unworthy of this discussion. The most common conclusion reached is simply that the developer's are not local and don't understand the nuisances of the city.

Thompson is luxury by no one's definition I am sure. You need to understand the distinction between trendy and luxury I believe.
 
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There is little sign that King West, or anywhere south of Queen, will have the retail density or variety of Yorkville/Bloor, any time soon.
 
The bottom image totally reminds me of a scene from Grand Theft Auto. Ironic given the location!

GTA V: San Snoronto- The Club District
 
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