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People who live downtown use the Gardiner too. I'm sick of all the elitism of the whole us v. them stance towards cars.
 
egotrippin said:
People who live downtown use the Gardiner too. I'm sick of all the elitism of the whole us v. them stance towards cars.
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agreed. the Gardiner is the only access point to the downtown for cars and should stay. It would be a lot cheaper and a lot smarter to install lighting under it and rebuild some of the ramps to be more pedestrian friendly at the bottom. A good transportation plan involves all forms of transport, including cars. Would I agree to more highways? no. Do we need way more transit of any kind? yes. Should we be tearing down existing infrastructure while we already face a sever infrastructure deficit? no.
 
Agreed. Those commuters help keep the city running and it`s often the 905ers who are the ones investing in our condo units (for rental apts). Without investors most projects wouldn`t ever get built.

Plus, some us of do live downtown and do have cars and yet still take transit and walk and bike. That`s the beauty of living in the city and having many ways to get around using the most efficient means possible in different situations.

p.s. I can`t wait until the ramps here are taken down :p
 
RiverCity1 said:
p.s. I can`t wait until the ramps here are taken down :p
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Even downtowners who defend car use have a little anti-car streak in them.

I actually think the off-ramp coming off the Gardiner and bookending the future Ten York with elevated highways on two sides looks kind of cool.
 
innsertnamehere said:
agreed. the Gardiner is the only access point to the downtown for cars and should stay. It would be a lot cheaper and a lot smarter to install lighting under it and rebuild some of the ramps to be more pedestrian friendly at the bottom. A good transportation plan involves all forms of transport, including cars. Would I agree to more highways? no. Do we need way more transit of any kind? yes. Should we be tearing down existing infrastructure while we already face a sever infrastructure deficit? no.
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You sum it perfectly here. Removing the ramps to spite drivers, as suggested, will make it worse for everyone, as commuters will pour onto the surface routes and clog local streets. Tearing down the Gardiner is nice in theory, but unless a viable alternative is built (i.e. tunnelled through the core), it will wreak havoc on an already overloaded route.

And no, I'm not picking the car's side, but as a driver, walker, biker and transit user (who lives downtown) I've realized that we need to work on improving all modes of transportation infrastructure.
 
I wouldn't argue on improving road infrastructure, as it is already largely built out to a satisfactory level. I just don't want to REMOVE it.
 
Transportfan said:
Even downtowners who defend car use have a little anti-car streak in them.

I actually think the off-ramp coming off the Gardiner and bookending the future Ten York with elevated highways on two sides looks kind of cool.
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I think it would look cool, too. I was thinking more about the circle into York St being not all that desirable currently, and when the ramp is taken down here that whole space is going to open up. I love the Gardiner but having more green space is going to look great at this location.
 
rpeters said:
Technically it wouldn't be "brought to grade", would it? It would be gone and lakeshore (with multiple traffic lights) would be all that's left, which is fine with me but all the mindless commuters from the boonies would probably have a stroke. I say do it though, they pretty much elected and supported Ford purely out of spite towards downtowners, we should have the chance to spite them by making their commute even worse.
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Yeah, because spite is generally the best tool in the planning arsenal.

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egotrippin said:
People who live downtown use the Gardiner too. I'm sick of all the elitism of the whole us v. them stance towards cars.
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It's not about elitism or about who uses the Gardiner. It's about whether we should be encouraging car use or discouraging it, and how walkable neighbourhoods are.

I'm sick of drivers being depicted as an oppressed minority that needs defending, when they're actually the privileged oppressor when it comes to transportation.
 
arvelomcquaig said:
It's not about elitism or about who uses the Gardiner. It's about whether we should be encouraging car use or discouraging it, and how walkable neighbourhoods are.

I'm sick of drivers being depicted as an oppressed minority that needs defending, when they're actually the privileged oppressor when it comes to transportation.
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"Oppressed" seems strong.
 
arvelomcquaig said:
I'm sick of drivers being depicted as an oppressed minority that needs defending, when they're actually the privileged oppressor when it comes to transportation.
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Yeah! Say it brother! We need to stand together and stick it to "The Man." Speak Truth to Power! Damn those suburban drivers, selling all our ancestors into slavery. And whatnot.
 
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