Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[aquateam]

Haha, I don't think so.

But in all seriousness, I really think fare payment will be EXCELLENT on the TTC by the end of the year. Firstly, the presto card is an excellent solution for the large majority of people who use transit more than once or twice in a decade. Even tourists, if they ride the UPX in, already save the full issuance cost of the card when riding the UPX on a round trip, then local transit savings are on top of that, plus the convenience factor. GTA residents who occasionally visit the city will likely save in the long run. Any regular commuter should obviously have it.

I dunno, so far Presto seems like a complete clusterfuck to me.

My last trip to Toronto:

• Walk in to College station. Don't see any fare gates. End up boarding without paying because I haven't spotted any functional machines by the time I'm at the platform.
• Walk in to Dundas station. This time, I see a lonely TTC attendant at a fare box, who most people are ignoring.

I meet up with a friend near Eglinton station. She tries to enter but realizes she doesn't have enough balance on her card.

• She finds a Presto loading machine and waits in line. When it's her turn, she finds it doesn't work.
• She asks an employee where she can pay. He leads us on a journey through the fare paid area to the other end of the station to the other presto loading machine. When it's her turn to use the machine, she discovers that the PIN reader on that machine doesn't work either.
• Visibly upset and unwilling to walk through the wide open space where there are no fare gates, she attracts the attention of an off-duty TTC employee who waves us through into the fare paid area
• We get off at St. Andrew. She asks the attendant where she can load her presto card. She then discovers that the one there is also out of order.
• We hope there are charging machines on the King streetcar and are similarly disappointed.

I ended up not paying my fare for half the trips unintentionally, and my friend did absolutely everything in her power to try to pay and was still unable to.

I wonder how much of the TTC's ridership drop from last year is just people not paying their fares because Presto made it so inconvenient.

Compare to Montreal, where transit fares are half as much, it's PAYE, and you actually see fare inspectors on a regular basis. I'd assume Toronto has about ten times the fare evasion rate.

 

[Megaton327]

I dunno, so far Presto seems like a complete clusterfuck to me.

My last trip to Toronto:

• Walk in to College station. Don't see any fare gates. End up boarding without paying because I haven't spotted any functional machines by the time I'm at the platform.
• Walk in to Dundas station. This time, I see a lonely TTC attendant at a fare box, who most people are ignoring.

I meet up with a friend near Eglinton station. She tries to enter but realizes she doesn't have enough balance on her card.

• She finds a Presto loading machine and waits in line. When it's her turn, she finds it doesn't work.
• She asks an employee where she can pay. He leads us on a journey through the fare paid area to the other end of the station to the other presto loading machine. When it's her turn to use the machine, she discovers that the PIN reader on that machine doesn't work either.
• Visibly upset and unwilling to walk through the wide open space where there are no fare gates, she attracts the attention of an off-duty TTC employee who waves us through into the fare paid area
• We get off at St. Andrew. She asks the attendant where she can load her presto card. She then discovers that the one there is also out of order.
• We hope there are charging machines on the King streetcar and are similarly disappointed.

I ended up not paying my fare for half the trips unintentionally, and my friend did absolutely everything in her power to try to pay and was still unable to.

I wonder how much of the TTC's ridership drop from last year is just people not paying their fares because Presto made it so inconvenient.

Compare to Montreal, where transit fares are half as much, it's PAYE, and you actually see fare inspectors on a regular basis. I'd assume Toronto has about ten times the fare evasion rate.

Firstly, at both college and dundas (assuming you mean the side under construction as the other has faregates), there are multiple clearly visible presto machines. I don't find them remotely difficult to see, so I'm at a loss as to how you managed to miss them. I don't understand how you could interpret "no fare gates installed" as "I get a free ride, woohoo!" I find people who actually have the intention of paying their fare tend to do so.

And in 7 years my Presto card has never run empty. You can setup autoload so that it can never possibly become empty, but I haven't even done that and since I'm a functioning adult my card always has money on it. I keep more than $3 on it so that if a reload kiosk doesn't work I can use another one.

 

[Leo_Chan]

since I'm a functioning adult

This made me laugh. It would probably be better if you said “financially sound” or something similar rather than “functioning” though.

 

[Megaton327]

This made me laugh. It would probably be better if you said “financially sound” or something similar rather than “functioning” though.

It's my usual phrase when people complain about their presto card running empty. Between here, twitter, and reddit I must use it two or three times a week. It's harsh, I recognize that, but I'm sorry, I just think it's valid. I think it's one of the simplest things we, as adults, are responsible for keeping in working order, and there are so many ways to keep it from happening that I'm left with no sympathy for people who complain about it. You can check your balance at reload kiosks (yes, some are out of order, but many aren't), online, and at a large and growing number of shoppers locations across the city. You can aim to keep your card above $50 or even above $20 rather than aiming for a $3.00 balance so that a broken reload kiosk doesn't mean you run dry. Or you can turn on autoload which takes the responsibility out of your hands by doing it for you, it's hugely convenient and can be done with either a bank account or a credit card, and makes it impossible to run out of funds. I just don't see any plausible excuse that an adult with a baseline level of cognitive functionality could present for this being a problem--a one time mistake, sure, but those who complain about it regularly, or who try to blame the TTC rather than taking personal responsibility, I just don't get it.

If you can't keep your presto card loaded, how do you pay bills? Work at a job? Buy groceries? Cook food? Keep your home clean? Keep yourself healthy? These are all far more complicated and, I'd argue, difficult tasks.

 

[crs1026]

If you can't keep your presto card loaded, how do you pay bills? Work at a job? Buy groceries? Cook food? Keep your home clean? Keep yourself healthy? These are all far more complicated and, I'd argue, difficult tasks.

Heh - please, be kind to us lesser mortals. Some of us spent decade after decade living at the non-staffed end of subway stations, and regularly discovering, when I got to the station half-awake and already late for work, that I had run out of tokens, didn't have the right change for the machine, and needed to walk to the staffed entrance at the other end of the station to buy tokens, maybe having to stop at an ATM on the way......

But yeah, autoload is wonderful.

- Paul

 

[M II A II R II K]

It was decent busy around 4:30 at York with the busses and in the station. As for a Pioneer Village the other day it does seem like going on an unnecessarily long trek down to the platform from the bus level.

 

[narduch]

Heh - please, be kind to us lesser mortals. Some of us spent decade after decade living at the non-staffed end of subway stations, and regularly discovering, when I got to the station half-awake and already late for work, that I had run out of tokens, didn't have the right change for the machine, and needed to walk to the staffed entrance at the other end of the station to buy tokens, maybe having to stop at an ATM on the way......

But yeah, autoload is wonderful.

- Paul

I wonder if Megaton327 drives. He must never let his gas tank get below 1/2.

 

[aquateam]

Firstly, at both college and dundas (assuming you mean the side under construction as the other has faregates), there are multiple clearly visible presto machines. I don't find them remotely difficult to see, so I'm at a loss as to how you managed to miss them. I don't understand how you could interpret "no fare gates installed" as "I get a free ride, woohoo!" I find people who actually have the intention of paying their fare tend to do so.

Maybe there are now, but in late December all I could see was construction hoarding. Peak shopping season at the Eaton centre really isn't the best time to switch to an honour system with a single tap-in location.

And in 7 years my Presto card has never run empty. You can setup autoload so that it can never possibly become empty, but I haven't even done that and since I'm a functioning adult my card always has money on it. I keep more than $3 on it so that if a reload kiosk doesn't work I can use another one.

To be clear, my card balance was fine. I learned to always keep a high balance after last summer when I discovered that just because a TTC station is "presto enabled" doesn't mean it has a presto loading machine. Although autoload seems more like a necessity than a convenient feature given that functioning reload machines are few and far between, and that the displays don't show your balance when you tap in so you have no idea when you are running low.

 

[salsa]

Why weren't trains turning back this morning at Finch West instead?

 

[Megaton327]

I wonder if Megaton327 drives. He must never let his gas tank get below 1/2.

I do drive, I actually drive an EV so I don't have gas, and I never let my charge get so low that I would be unable to make a single short trip to a charging station, and I don't see how that's even remotely comparable or relevant to the discussion--which is already way off topic.

Rest assured if there were an autoload equivalent where I could spend an extra 5 minutes one single time when I purchased my EV, and it would automatically regain some 20% of its charge whenever it dropped below 10%, I would have done so.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I wonder if Megaton327 drives. He must never let his gas tank get below 1/2.

Except, there isn't a button you can push on your car that auto-fills the tank while you're driving.

That said, I've TWICE set up autoload on my card and, for whatever reasons, not been on transit within 30 days. The result is that I forget until I swipe my card and find there's nothing on it (indeed, this happened to me at the 407 station on the weekend) because the autoload was never activated, even though online it shows it IS setup, so I have to call/email customer service to reset it. The only two things that really bug me about Presto are the time it takes for reloads to show up and the need to swipe within 30 days to activate things. Once I setup a card, didn't ride for a bit and then realized I had to swipe (ie pay a fare I wasn't actually using) to activate it.

Point is, he may be a bit equivocal in his language but it IS possible (and easy, for a regular user) to have the card setup so it cannot ever run dry. I don't autoload on my Starbucks card and that never hits zero either. This stuff isn't hard to manage, despite the system's foibles.

 

[wopchop]

At a certain point though, as adults, we need to take responsibility for organizing our own lives. Whether it is running out of tokens, money on our Presto card, gasoline, or electric charge on our EV - it is a completely preventable situation that is basically entirely within our control (well, nearly always).

 

[Irishmonk]

Kids today don't have any comprehension of just how stressful, disorienting and frustrating the online world is for older folks. There are many things about it that aren't intuitive. I sympathize with folks who try to avoid it as much as possible.

The Presto card in particular has flaws and annoyances baked into it that simpler cards in cities like Shanghai have avoided. The worst, imo, is that that the card readers (the things you tap the card on) lack a screen that tells you how much is left on your card.

 

[Megaton327]

The worst, imo, is that that the card readers (the things you tap the card on) lack a screen that tells you how much is left on your card.

That's not a problem with Presto. Presto displays your balance, fare deducted, and/or time remaining on a transfer on:

• Brampton Transit/Züm
• Burlington Transit
• Durham Region Transit
• GO Transit
• Hamilton Street Railway
• MiWay
• Oakville Transit
• OCTranspo
• Union Pearson Express
• YRT/Viva

Presto does not display any of that information on:

• The TTC

It's a decision the TTC made. They claimed they can't legally show that information unless they also play it out loud for everyone to hear for accessibility reasons. Somehow, this law apparently only applies to the TTC and not the other 10 transit agencies that use the card, all of which have found that a headphone jack is sufficient for passengers who are visually impaired, if there is any need at all for an audible reading given that visually impaired passengers can still check their balance at customer service outlets, reload machines, online, and by phone.

I suggest you contact the TTC and ask them to change this if, like almost everybody in Toronto, you find this objectionable.

 

[Sandpit]

That's not a problem with Presto. Presto displays your balance, fare deducted, and/or time remaining on a transfer on:

• Brampton Transit/Züm
• Burlington Transit
• Durham Region Transit
• GO Transit
• Hamilton Street Railway
• MiWay
• Oakville Transit
• OCTranspo
• Union Pearson Express
• YRT/Viva

Presto does not display any of that information on:

• The TTC

It's a decision the TTC made. They claimed they can't legally show that information unless they also play it out loud for everyone to hear for accessibility reasons. Somehow, this law apparently only applies to the TTC and not the other 10 transit agencies that use the card, all of which have found that a headphone jack is sufficient for passengers who are visually impaired, if there is any need at all for an audible reading given that visually impaired passengers can still check their balance at customer service outlets, reload machines, online, and by phone.

I suggest you contact the TTC and ask them to change this if, like almost everybody in Toronto, you find this objectionable.

The real reason for this is passenger flow issues. It only takes one second (literally) to glance at the remaining balance, but imagine if every passenger did that. It adds up, and people already complain about Presto gates being slow to open. The other agencies don't have the passenger loads that the TTC has.