Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

I'll have to agree with Voltz. Also, there really are areas where LRT would be better off than subway, even if it might be a shock.

I do think that we need more subway, however. This could easily be the time the City comes out and says we're gonna make transit right in Toronto, because we've been undercut on our transit improvements for a long time now, and I think we really need and deserve that.

But really, the TTCs style of LRT isn't going to be bad. During rush hour, transit times will be much, much better than a regular bus. Even normally, times will be a fair bit better than by bus. Then again, there are some Transit City routes that should get a better version of LRT. Like I said before, it's all about finding the balance and need for different systems.
 
I have no problem with a Don Mills LRT. I also have no problem with a Finch or Jane LRT. My problem is with LRT on Sheppard and to replace the SRT, when in both cases it should be subway. Eglinton I'd prefer subway, but as I've said many times, I'll settle for the tunnel with subway-like spacing we're getting for now, as long as its convertible to subway in future.

I agree the we need to decide what should go where. And that's where the disagreement lies. I don't believe in LRT everywhere. I don't believe in subways everywhere either. But I believe we need more subways than just to York Region.
 
junctionist said:
Figures have been quoted on this board that average travel speeds will not be significantly higher on TC routes compared to existing bus service.
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That doesn't mean the information quoted is correct. I don't think anyone has gone out there in rush-hour and figured out what the real travelling speed is on a mediocre day. They've merely looked at the 2-way TTC schedules (and I'm not convinced theyve even looked at peak period), and then ignored that the service inbound doesn't really work, and the buses are often hugely behind schedule.
 
Toronto need not attempt to rival New York. Excluding Staten Island, the area of the 416 area code is about equal to the land area of NYC's four urban boroughs, which have a population of about 8 million. In other words, Toronto might only require a subway network as extensive as New York's once the 416 population increases to 8 million. At that point, the total GTA population might be 15 million.

Until that happens, Toronto's subway needs would be superbly met with just the following:

-Eglinton subway, airport to Scarborough.
-DRL, Don Mills to Pape to downtown to Dundas West and north perhaps on Jane to about Eglinton.
-minor extensions of the YUS and BD subways, perhaps Yonge express.
-full build out of Sheppard subway from Etobicoke to STC.

The whole thing might cost $20 billion, and assuming a 20 year construction time frame, that's $1 billion per year. Obviously, it's ridiculous to assume that 5, 2, or even 1 km could be opened per year since it takes 5 years to go from excavation to operation at any given section of track. Instead, the goal should be to open 1 new subway line every 7 years, each of which might be 20-30 km each.
 
The only subway line I really think is "necessary" is the DRL. That is what pisses me off about Transit City. The DRL is so clearly more important, yet was subordinated to running oodles of stylish LRT to Malvern and Jane & Finch. All the typical pro-LRT arguments just rub salt in the wound. We know that funding was never really an issue, as T/C got funded without virtually any political hassle. It would be immediately popular, so you can't make the argument that it would be yet another white elephant subway to nowhere. Hell, it may even turn an operating profit in the medium term. Screw rivaling New York, we should try to rival Stockholm. Practically the Tokyo of N. Europe, with its behemoth 1.5m people!
 
Chuck said:
Toronto need not attempt to rival New York. Excluding Staten Island, the area of the 416 area code is about equal to the land area of NYC's four urban boroughs, which have a population of about 8 million. In other words, Toronto might only require a subway network as extensive as New York's once the 416 population increases to 8 million. At that point, the total GTA population might be 15 million.

Until that happens, Toronto's subway needs would be superbly met with just the following:

-Eglinton subway, airport to Scarborough.
-DRL, Don Mills to Pape to downtown to Dundas West and north perhaps on Jane to about Eglinton.
-minor extensions of the YUS and BD subways, perhaps Yonge express.
-full build out of Sheppard subway from Etobicoke to STC.

The whole thing might cost $20 billion, and assuming a 20 year construction time frame, that's $1 billion per year. Obviously, it's ridiculous to assume that 5, 2, or even 1 km could be opened per year since it takes 5 years to go from excavation to operation at any given section of track. Instead, the goal should be to open 1 new subway line every 7 years, each of which might be 20-30 km each.
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I don't think people should take the phrase "rivaling New York" so literally. I agree with all your choices for subway building.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I have no problem with a Don Mills LRT. I also have no problem with a Finch or Jane LRT. My problem is with LRT on Sheppard and to replace the SRT, when in both cases it should be subway. Eglinton I'd prefer subway, but as I've said many times, I'll settle for the tunnel with subway-like spacing we're getting for now, as long as its convertible to subway in future.

I agree the we need to decide what should go where. And that's where the disagreement lies. I don't believe in LRT everywhere. I don't believe in subways everywhere either. But I believe we need more subways than just to York Region.
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I dunno, Sheppard/Warden for instance seems like the last place one would expect to find a subway line. That's the problem I'm finding with any serious talk of a Sheppard Subway expansion, the mode exceeds the demand and not the other way around. Maybe 50 years from now but not based on existing volume usage. Expanding the SRT may actually be in Scarborough's best interest if it minimizes the number of transfers en route to the downtown or NYCC (as Sheppard East LRT vehicles would be compatible with the newly renovated SRT).

I think an Eglinton Subway is the more important proposal for the city and has lots of interregional potential. Today's main gateway from Square One to Toronto is Dundas, Bloor or Burnhamthrope bus routes to the B-D Line inwards. Long and arduous. Now were an Eglinton Line in place to Renforth and the Mississauga Transitway completed, a new seamless access point would be created-- bringing the bulk of passengers through Midtown and to the downtown core via the underused Spadina Line in less time than today's method. A subway connection to our int'l airport is forward, progressive-thinking as well.
 
Amphibius said:
I think an Eglinton Subway is the more important proposal for the city and has lots of interregional potential. Today's main gateway from Square One to Toronto is Dundas, Bloor or Burnhamthrope bus routes to the B-D Line inwards. Long and arduous. Now were an Eglinton Line in place to Renforth and the Mississauga Transitway completed, a new seamless access point would be created-- bringing the bulk of passengers through Midtown and to the downtown core via the underused Spadina Line in less time than today's method. A subway connection to our int'l airport is forward, progressive-thinking as well.
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Square One to Toronto downtown via Mississauga Transitway, Eglinton subway, and Spadina subway ... this would be a very indirect connection, with many stops. A much faster route can be created by electrifying the Milton GO line, and rerouting it through Square One in an underground tunnel.

I agree that a subway connection to the airport is desirable, but that could be either Eglinton or Sheppard.
 
Whoaccio said:
Hell, it may even turn an operating profit in the medium term. Screw rivaling New York, we should try to rival Stockholm. Practically the Tokyo of N. Europe, with its behemoth 1.5m people!
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Aw, c'mon. Scandinavia leads the world in per capita woonerfs, downtown tramways, guerilla gardening and bikesharing. Do you want us to fall behind?
 
Finch West Station Updates:

  • The city is planning to expropriate several properties in the Finch Avenue West and Keele Street area to make way for the Finch West Station.
  • The city plans to expropriate: 1150 Finch Avenue West and 3933, 3939 and 3975 Keele Street
  • Next week the Government Management Committee will vote on whether or not to buy a vacant plot of land on the southwest corner of Murray Ross Parkway and Keele Street owned by York University.
  • The land is intended for a fire hall reloction (currently 3965 Keele)
  • Finch West Station will be designed by the Spadina Group Associates, a joint venture between Alsop Architects and Stevens Group Architects Inc., Halsall Associates and Lea Engineering with a budget of $12 million.
 
*bump*

Hopefully they extend the sheppard line westwards as this suggests :)


http://www.yorkregion.com/article/90959
Transit projects on track
April 23, 2009 09:47 AM

BY DAVID FLEISCHER
York Region's rapid transit projects are moving down the track.

- Viva's efforts to move its buses into their own lanes, known as rapidways, got a big boost with a provincial announcement of $1.4 billion in funding last month.

Construction will begin later this year on the first phase, including lanes on Davis Drive in Newmarket and on Hwy. 7, from Yonge Street east to Markham Centre.

Subsequent phases will extend the line east and west along Hwy. 7 and north on Yonge to 19th Avenue and through Newmarket Centre and along Green Lane.

Staff are looking at how best to provide accessibility for pedestrians at Bayview Avenue, now provided by steep stairs between the street and Hwy. 7 below.

Viva has prepared illustrations, and is developing movies, to give the public a sense of what our roads will look like with the rapidways.

- The environmental project report for the Yonge Street subway extension was approved by the province on April 6.

The TTC will soon complete a study on rail yards, needed to ensure there is a place to store the trains needed for the extension. Options could include a yard in Richmond Hill or Vaughan as well as expanding the Wilson yard and extending the Sheppard subway west, linking it with the Yonge line.

Staff continue to work with the TTC on design and engineering as well as with Metrolinx, the regional transit authority, so they are ready to go when funding is approved. Such a decision could come as early as the summer.

Residents of the Uplands community expressed concerns over the impact of a proposed 1,900 car parking lot south of Hwy. 407, but Viva staff have been in contact and promised either to distribute a newsletter or to ensure the first public meeting on the subway is in their neighbourhood.

- The Spadina subway extension is fully funded and designs are moving forward for the stations.

An initial design for the large Steeles West station is being reassessed and planners are looking at how to fit a subway terminal and Viva station into the Vaughan Corporate Centre.

How to integrate the 407 Transitway, a planned express bus rapid transit service, is also being considered.

It remains several years off and the stations will have to be designed and built before the Transitway is approved.

The challenges are even more pronounced at Richmond Hill Centre.

Efforts there are aimed at integrating GO, Viva and TTC subway stations which could be spread across the site.
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I would have to agree. A short extension west to Downsview would be a substantial benefit to the subway network, possibly even more so than extending Sheppard East to Vic Park or Kennedy.

We all know the frequent problems that occur on Yonge line, usually between Eglinton and Union. With a Sheppard West connection, those coming from North York can switch to the Spadina line at Sheppard and be diverted around any problems.
 
lead82 said:
We all know the frequent problems that occur on Yonge line, usually between Eglinton and Union. With a Sheppard West connection, those coming from North York can switch to the Spadina line at Sheppard and be diverted around any problems.
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Or alternatively, the TTC can spend a lot less amount to, you know, fix those problems and not need such expensive diversions.
 
Is it known what has to be done to cut the incidence of Yonge line disruptions by, say, 70%? How much would that cost?

Other works planned in lieu of the Sheppard subway extension:
- New yard for Yonge North extension (cost: ??)
- Finch E - Don Mills LRT bypass (cost: 300 - 400 m)

The list is growing, and might not be that cheap. I do not know if those costs combined could match the cost of Sheppard subway westward extension, but this is something worth looking at.
 
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