Transportfan
Senior Member
Actually, the 905 municipalities do sort of exist in a bubble, especially in Peel. No regional transit there. There's no real common sense of place in the regions between the cities even in contiguous built up areas.
Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
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Actually, the 905 municipalities do sort of exist in a bubble, especially in Peel. No regional transit there. There's no real common sense of place in the regions between the cities even in contiguous built up areas.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Please provide a link or reference. York Region currently contributes a subsidy to the TTC for operating 6 bus routes into York Region, $4.49 per passenger in 2014 (link).
Adjei
Senior Member
Working together with York Region Transit, Brampton Transit, TTC, and GO Transit, plans are being completed for collecting transfer fares for trips using the Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension to travel to/from York University and York Region BRT stations. These business requirements will be used by PRESTO to advance the required enhancements to the PRESTO system for the 2017 subway opening. Further discussions will address revenue allocation and any fiscal impacts.
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20151203/20151203_BoardMtg_PP_Report_EN.pdf
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20151203/20151203_BoardMtg_PP_Report_EN.pdf
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
I wasn't making a philosophical point about "sense of place."
I was making the concretely observable point that perhaps once Vaughan and Markham and Mississauga were separated from "the city" but commuters now regularly cross the borders as if they aren't there (which they aren't except in terms of tax bills). If someone is going from Vaughan to Brampton or Toronto to Markham, they don't care what colour the bus is or who is paying the taxes that operate it. They especially don't want to see a bus that's the "wrong colour" go past them, empty, because there are some rules someone wrote that said they're not allowed to get on it. A Toronto resident is not privileged because they have to wait for "their" crowded bus instead of boarding "their" empty one.
That probably happens more at the Steeles border than elsewhere, but it's a systemic problem. That's all I'm saying.
That's not even a subsidy, really. They just pay TTC to operate those routes, straight up.
Anyway, there's a fair point to made about the operating costs which, I don't even know how much they are on that small segment. But are you calculating based on distance? Ridership? What's the difference between Toronto residents riding the line across the border vs. York Region residents riding it across? Should York Region residents get a discount (or pay extra?) parking at Finch Station or boarding a TTC bus since Toronto residents are effectively paying twice and they're only paying once?
I'm not disputing the fare system is imperfect (on the contrary) but this is just small potatoes in the scheme of things. No one forced TTC to sign the master agreement - they get all the parking revenue, for example - and there are inequities anywhere you look in the system, if you want to look.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Is there a track that connects the yard to the new line maybe as there are still buffers at the end of downsview. I wonder when they will take them out and lay the last bit of track.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Where would IKEA end up, since it would be eaten up by development? Perhaps it could be relocated to near Vaughan Mills or Wonderland?Just joining the thread, noticed there was lots of talk about the existing land use in the VMC. For those that haven't seen it, this is the vision for it in the future in 2031 and at full buildout (2050?). This is looking east at Highway 7 and Jane:
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Ikea will be there for a while, the same way it's still there at Leslie/401. When it makes financial sense to ditch it, it will get ditched. Who's to say that 20 or 30 years from now people will want to shop at a big box store like that, generally, or at Ikea specifically? Maybe in 2040, Ikea will be like K-Mart or Simpson's? (Alternately, perhaps our culture will be Swedish-centric and every mixed-use building will have an Ikea at grade alongside a store selling Lisbeth Sander books and coffee...)
BMO
Senior Member
That's because the land is owned by the TTC and only the TTC gets the money from the farebox...TTC can charge a surcharge for this portion of the line if they want...
Implying the Region should pay for the operation would be like asking YRT to maintain the Finch Bus when it gets $0 from the farebox for it. If York Region isn't getting any revenue from the subway why should it pay for the operation?
44 North
Senior Member
I guess it's mostly theoretical at this point that there will be a deficit requiring subsidy (i.e operating costs minus farebox revenue) for the section north of Steeles. But I don't see the issue with Vaughan paying their fair share if any gap arises.
In order to get an extension it was Vaughan that promised to build a high-density downtown. They wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. They made the pledge that by 2031 there'd be 25k residents and 11.5k jobs all within walking distance of the terminus. This wasn't an off the cuff remark made in the 2000s; Vaughan is still making that promise. So over the next fifteen years if they don't add on average 3,000 residents and the equivalent of a KPMG office bldg worth of jobs every two years - or don't come close to that number - then it's as if they're reneging on their promise. This was a lot of money, some of which still hasn't been paid yet. So there should be no comparison to a bus. The success of the subway extension is largely contingent on the centre's success. After the fares have been pulled in and it ends up costing the TTC to travel north of Steeles, I don't see why Vaughan shouldn't chip in.
In order to get an extension it was Vaughan that promised to build a high-density downtown. They wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. They made the pledge that by 2031 there'd be 25k residents and 11.5k jobs all within walking distance of the terminus. This wasn't an off the cuff remark made in the 2000s; Vaughan is still making that promise. So over the next fifteen years if they don't add on average 3,000 residents and the equivalent of a KPMG office bldg worth of jobs every two years - or don't come close to that number - then it's as if they're reneging on their promise. This was a lot of money, some of which still hasn't been paid yet. So there should be no comparison to a bus. The success of the subway extension is largely contingent on the centre's success. After the fares have been pulled in and it ends up costing the TTC to travel north of Steeles, I don't see why Vaughan shouldn't chip in.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
IKEA also have retail operations in high-density locations such as Hong Kong. This means that even if Vaughan were to intensify, IKEA could very well occupy five to six floors of a shopping centre in a condo.
The IKEA may even have a direct subway connection.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
It's good that the subway car doors are wider nowadays.
Now if only they go a little further and...
TOareaFan
Superstar
Did they promise to build it or did they promise to put the zoning and planning regime in place to encourage the market to build it?
The subway extension will be a success due to York University. VMC and 407 will be a bonus.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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I find it funny that with 407 Station, we do not have shovels in the ground for any segments of the 407 Transitways. Not that we really need them yet.
They are building that station so I can visit my parents after they depart the planet permanently. Beechwood Cemetery just across the street.