Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

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So is TTC management comfortable in saying....leave us in charge and it will take 18 months longer and cost $35M more than firing and replacing us.
 

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Well going external is 5M cheaper and opens a year early than the best-case TTC lead scenario. Sounds like the desired option has already been justified. Now, if TTC aren't going to be managing the project, wouldn't additional heads get to roll?

AlbertHWagstaff said:
Only if those that succeed them have any idea what they're doing. No guarantees on that either.
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Considering that they didn't appear to have any idea either, it's at worst a wash?

AoD

EDIT: well, external it appears to be: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...contractor-to-help-finish-spadina-subway.html
 
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TTC are a bunch of jokers. Shows how incompetent they are. They should never be in charge of building any projects of this magnitude again.
 
Adjei said:
TTC are a bunch of jokers. Shows how incompetent they are. They should never be in charge of building any projects of this magnitude again.
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TTC was planning to deliver the first phase of Eglinton would open in 2016 before Metrolinx took over and went PPP. I expect they Metrolinx have no chance of achieving the 2020 date.

What would you propose?
 
TOareaFan said:
View attachment 43094

So is TTC management comfortable in saying....leave us in charge and it will take 18 months longer and cost $35M more than firing and replacing us.
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Likely Option 4 is no longer available, since two of some of the top people on the project team were let go.
 
TOareaFan said:
So is TTC management comfortable in saying....leave us in charge and it will take 18 months longer and cost $35M more than firing and replacing us.
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I can certainly believe all the projects are run like this: higher cost and later completion date under ttc vs. outsourcing.

And many still think Toronto doesn't have a "spending problem" but a "revenue problem" and we should charge some city tax to raise money for transit. Bogus. It has always been the spending problem. Looking at the compensation of TTC, Police etc. and one should instantly get a pretty good idea. Public money is squandered like this all the time. If run efficiently and only use the people needed, all projects should be completed with half the actual price tag.
 
ksun said:
And many still think Toronto doesn't have a "spending problem" but a "revenue problem" and we should charge some city tax to raise money for transit. Bogus.
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You are completely wrong here.

Compare how many passenger miles TTC gets for a dollar to any other transit system in North America. How can we be lowest AND have a spending problem.

Compare the cost overrun on this project to other major projects, such a the Laval extension in Quebec (which was so overbudget they launched a provincial inquiry into it) or recent large projects in New York City. Or compare to the massive budget over-runs you get in many Asian cities.

Changing the budget of a $2.63 billion to-be-completed in 2015 to $2.78 billion to-be-completed in 2017 is hardly unusual. 5.7% overbudget ... hardly a shocker. $323 million per kilometre.
 
nfitz said:
You are completely wrong here.

Compare how many passenger miles TTC gets for a dollar to any other transit system in North America. How can we be lowest AND have a spending problem.

Compare the cost overrun on this project to other major projects, such a the Laval extension in Quebec (which was so overbudget they launched a provincial inquiry into it) or recent large projects in New York City. Or compare to the massive budget over-runs you get in many Asian cities.

Changing the budget of a $2.63 billion to-be-completed in 2015 to $2.78 billion to-be-completed in 2017 is hardly unusual. 5.7% overbudget ... hardly a shocker. $323 million per kilometre.
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It was also supposed to open in 2015. Now delays are almost expected, but we're talking about a delay of 2-4 years which is pretty bad planning at somewhere on the line. Though like you say, percentage wise, that isn't a lot on the overall size of the project, but we're talking about something funded by taxpayers, where's the accountability?

And the funding issue you describe, isn't that the operational budget? From my understanding the capital projects like the subway extensions are under a different budget.

The TTC farebox isn't subsidized as much, while it might be impossible to break even on operational costs, is demanding more taxpayer money the solution? Since it's at the end, all of us that are paying for it. There ought to be more creative solutions to run the system more effectively.
 
Hairball said:
It was also supposed to open in 2015. Now delays are almost expected, but we're talking about a delay of 2-4 years ...
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2 years. Though it was pretty clear in the presentation that the 2015 opening date was set before funding was 100% lined up, which delayed the project start by 18 months. TTCs mistake wasn't simply not resetting the timeframe properly back in 2008 or so.
 
ksun said:
I can certainly believe all the projects are run like this: higher cost and later completion date under ttc vs. outsourcing.

And many still think Toronto doesn't have a "spending problem" but a "revenue problem" and we should charge some city tax to raise money for transit. Bogus. It has always been the spending problem. Looking at the compensation of TTC, Police etc. and one should instantly get a pretty good idea. Public money is squandered like this all the time. If run efficiently and only use the people needed, all projects should be completed with half the actual price tag.
Click to expand...

Then why aren't you running these projects if you know how to cut the costs in half?
 
I thought a couple of weeks ago reports were the project was going to cost $400 or $450 million or more but now the TTC is saying approx $180M depending on which option they take?

What figures are we to believe? How did it go from $400-450M to $180M approx?

I do not believe any of these figures or estimates.
 
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