bjl
New Member
....that's just sad.
Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
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JasonParis
Moderator
Slow federal funding stalls York subway plan
TheStar.com - GTA - Slow federal funding stalls York subway plan
Spadina project won't be ready till 2015, TTC says
March 01, 2008
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
A lack of federal funding has already delayed completion of the Spadina subway extension to York University by a year, says TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
The joint federal-provincial-municipal project, announced amid much fanfare one year ago by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Premier Dalton McGuinty, was supposed to be finished by 2014.
"It is now in the 2015 window," Giambrone said yesterday.
Some sewer relocation and design work has been done but, under the joint trust agreement, he said, no shovels can go in the ground until the federal funds begin to flow.
"You can't build a subway on announcements," said Giambrone.
"I'm sure (the money) will arrive at some point," he said, but typically, "it takes an unacceptably long time."
But Maryse Durette, a spokesperson for Transport Canada, said Ottawa's share of the Spadina subway funding, about $697 million, "is reimbursement based." She said "federal funding will flow once the project is underway, construction begins and costs incurred."
Queen's Park, Toronto and York Region are expected to pick up the rest of the $2 billion price tag.
The province says it has already put up its share of the money.
"We put our funds in up front. There's no reason the federal government couldn't have done the same," said Amy Tang, spokesperson for Ontario Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal David Caplan.
The delay makes the Spadina project one of two subway extensions slated for completion in 2015. The Yonge line is expected to be built into York Region by 2015 or 2016, said John Howe, an executive with Metrolinx, the provincial agency that is allocating the $11.5 billion in provincial funding pledged for Toronto-area transit by 2020. It has asked Ottawa to chip in $6 billion for the 52 projects in the plan, the federal government has yet to make a commitment, said Howe.
Part of that money would help build the TTC's $6 billion Transit City plan to expand streetcar service. But two-thirds of the Transit City funding has already been pledged by the province, so presumably it could continue to steam ahead next year, said Giambrone.
All that's needed is Metrolinx's approval, which must come by year's end. "We will not be able to issue contracts without it," he said.
TheStar.com - GTA - Slow federal funding stalls York subway plan
Spadina project won't be ready till 2015, TTC says
March 01, 2008
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
A lack of federal funding has already delayed completion of the Spadina subway extension to York University by a year, says TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
The joint federal-provincial-municipal project, announced amid much fanfare one year ago by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Premier Dalton McGuinty, was supposed to be finished by 2014.
"It is now in the 2015 window," Giambrone said yesterday.
Some sewer relocation and design work has been done but, under the joint trust agreement, he said, no shovels can go in the ground until the federal funds begin to flow.
"You can't build a subway on announcements," said Giambrone.
"I'm sure (the money) will arrive at some point," he said, but typically, "it takes an unacceptably long time."
But Maryse Durette, a spokesperson for Transport Canada, said Ottawa's share of the Spadina subway funding, about $697 million, "is reimbursement based." She said "federal funding will flow once the project is underway, construction begins and costs incurred."
Queen's Park, Toronto and York Region are expected to pick up the rest of the $2 billion price tag.
The province says it has already put up its share of the money.
"We put our funds in up front. There's no reason the federal government couldn't have done the same," said Amy Tang, spokesperson for Ontario Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal David Caplan.
The delay makes the Spadina project one of two subway extensions slated for completion in 2015. The Yonge line is expected to be built into York Region by 2015 or 2016, said John Howe, an executive with Metrolinx, the provincial agency that is allocating the $11.5 billion in provincial funding pledged for Toronto-area transit by 2020. It has asked Ottawa to chip in $6 billion for the 52 projects in the plan, the federal government has yet to make a commitment, said Howe.
Part of that money would help build the TTC's $6 billion Transit City plan to expand streetcar service. But two-thirds of the Transit City funding has already been pledged by the province, so presumably it could continue to steam ahead next year, said Giambrone.
All that's needed is Metrolinx's approval, which must come by year's end. "We will not be able to issue contracts without it," he said.
Panzerfaust
Active Member
Honestly, I'm becoming inclined to believe Dentrobate is a troll, and he sits there laughing in his little spinny chair every time one of us takes the bait. That's the only way I can justify statements like the one you replied to existing.
Because seriously, "electricity generating snow melting heat"? I guess that's why there's never any problems on above ground subway lines with much more snow-friendly technology than the RT. Wait, what's that? Electricity doesn't melt the snow on these sections, leading to delays? Why I never!
DENTROBATE54
Banned
In case your weren't aware of this, bjl was masquerading as another poster here recently named I-Z1 before he got banned for verbally abusive remarks and personal insults. His only purpose for posting here now is to contradict everything I post in for spiteful reasons. He's the troll, not me!
Heat+ friction cause molecules to move i.e. melt. It's grade 9 physics. Maybe instead of idiotizing everyhting I say, maybe consider others point-of-views might be the right one and not your's all the time. The SRT's trackbed's designed differently from YUS and BD's such that the trains are raised far enough from ground level to allow locomotion. In some cases (southbound towards Eglinton West, westbound towards Victoria Park, eastbound entering Dundas West) gravity further assists propulsion forward. In contrast the SRT's elevated section has heightened barriers between the eastbound/westbound tracks that curve inward, thus collect snow. As such it acts as a retardant to train speeds, hence your blizzard days closures.
I'm very opinionated and sometimes that may come as aggressive but that only shows how empassioned I am about transportation issues and I'm welcome to civilized critiques so long as you give my POV a chance
.EnviroTO
Senior Member
Heat + Friction = Molecules Move? Is that Dentrobate54's law? What units are you using. I have never seen heat added to friction. I also don't see how you have proven that electrified rail melts snow because you haven't shown that electrified rail causes heat.
Firstly, if there is an electrified rail it is not the load bearing rail but an additional third rail. Secondly, usually the third rail is conductive enough to not create any measurable amount of heat... heat from electricity is caused by resistance and a big thick piece of metal tends not to cause much resistance to the amount of current being used here. Lastly, idiotizing is not a word and you spelt "everything" incorrectly.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I know, Dentrobate, and I agree with you. More limited stops would be a great idea. But is this just your idea for how it should work? Or have you actually heard this from somebody at the TTC? From everything I've heard from the TTC/Adam Giambrone, stop frequency will not be reduced.
Dear lord. Yes, I know, I don't know why I take the bait. It's just...so...addictive. That, and I hope other people get something useful out of it. Dentrobate. Nobody is talking about replacing Transit City with those three subway lines. All three are already funded (Scarborough in the form of an RT renovation and useless extension) in addition to Transit City.
What the streetcar fanatics don't understand is that you can "benefit" from a line without living within a few hundred yards of a stop. Someone at Lawrence and Vic Park would benefit from a subway on Don Mills, because it means a short hop on the bus and a very fast and direct subway ride downtown. Someone living in the Beach benefits from a DRL, even though the DRL doesn't have stops in their neighbourhood, because they can get off the Queen streetcar at Pape and transfer to the subway for their trips downtown. People at McCowan and Finch don't have a station on a subway replacing the Scarborough RT, but they still benefit from an eliminated transfer at Kennedy and faster ride downtown. Conversely, people don't benefit from a station at their doorstep if it doesn't take them anywhere they want to go or takes forever to get there.
Dentrobate, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated, but it helps when your opinions are backed up with some knowledge. By The Bomber, I meant Bombardier, just to clarify, and replacing the ICTS cars is exactly what the TTC is doing. Doing so, and uselessly extending the line to Markham and Sheppard, would cost the same amount as eliminating the RT and replacing it with a subway.
The "grassroots motley crew" was led by every single Scarborough councillor. I think you should take another peek at "grassroots" in your dictionary.
Damn! This is the kind of extreme reaction that bad service in Scarborough can produce! Maybe Dentrobate's exhibitionism is what's driving so many people off the RT!
adma
Superstar
"Grin and bare it"? Is that, like, ripping off your clothes while wearing a psychotic smile?
DENTROBATE54
Banned
Wow, this must be "Bash the Dentrobate Week" !!
Let me make this very clear. I'm not baiting anyone. I'm just trying to get my point-of-view across dammit. Just because the majority here likes DRL and extending... er, overextending existing subway lines beyond practicality doesn't make a BRT/LRT/new subway lines supporter's arguments any less valid.
That's still a transfer is it not? Hence you could say that in fact the limited-catchmented DRL creates more of a Transfer City than a city-wideTransit City network does, right? Until we see observe Transit City in action, all this negativity against it is futile since for one it'd be an improvement over the 54 and 501- anything that can accomplish that is good in my book.
They might appreciate having multiple transit options over everyone being funneled into the same hydro/rail corridor trap no closer to major nodes than saving a few minutes. It'll likely turn out they'll still need to transfer onto one or two more vehicles once downtown to reach their destinations. If done right, a downtown subway could make everywhere of significance be within a five mins walk.
Knowledge is readily accessible to anyone. The last time I used 'knowledge' prove my points about the DRL I was ridiculed because you're the author. Maybe if people spent less time reliant on statistics and more time listening to the real issues vocalized by true transit users (not suits in TTC HQ/City Hall), we'd have the idyllic GTA-wide network this forum yearns to attain.
About Sheppard-Markham, say to Scarborough Centre was already a subway, would you be so quick to condemn a 'Malvern' extension as useless? I don't see anywhere else the line could naturally go but there. And closing off the loop too soon with the Sheppard Line at STC would leave a half-million Scarborough ferrying upwards of an hour to STC still.
My word choice was intentional. Go to a tenement house around Kingston/Galloway and see how many low-income residents give a flying fig what technology gets them to their destinations. These are the real people affected by this, not suits elected by Scarborough Bluff ogliarchy.
Ha, ha, ha! I really am getting it from all sides this week.
Wanna know something... newsflash, I dislike the RT too. I'm a UTSC student and when class's done I prefer a 1 hour commute to York Mills or if timed right a brisk 25 mins ride to Kennedy via the 116E. Coming to school however SRT's almost inavoidable to ride, so given that nothing gets me to the 38 bus faster than 8 mins, I endure. Now I could be selfish and say convert the SRT as I would get there even faster.
However realizing that 000s more than myself are in need in the northeast quadrant, I can sacrifice nepotism and do what's in the best interest of the greatest number. No matter what, unless you're fortunate enough to have your house, job and recreation located all along the same route, chances are every single commuter on earth has to transfer vehicles at some point. Hence one lousy interchange ain't going to kill anyone.
Obviously I wasn't being serious, it's just some posters feel the need to overemphasize everything I say in the hopes of discrediting me. Sometimes I deliberately say outlandish things just for laughs e.g. saying 'idiotizing' in defense of not being an idiot. You people are too serious sometimes, lighten up a little.
!!Let me make this very clear. I'm not baiting anyone. I'm just trying to get my point-of-view across dammit. Just because the majority here likes DRL and extending... er, overextending existing subway lines beyond practicality doesn't make a BRT/LRT/new subway lines supporter's arguments any less valid.
That's still a transfer is it not? Hence you could say that in fact the limited-catchmented DRL creates more of a Transfer City than a city-wideTransit City network does, right? Until we see observe Transit City in action, all this negativity against it is futile since for one it'd be an improvement over the 54 and 501- anything that can accomplish that is good in my book.
They might appreciate having multiple transit options over everyone being funneled into the same hydro/rail corridor trap no closer to major nodes than saving a few minutes. It'll likely turn out they'll still need to transfer onto one or two more vehicles once downtown to reach their destinations. If done right, a downtown subway could make everywhere of significance be within a five mins walk.
Knowledge is readily accessible to anyone. The last time I used 'knowledge' prove my points about the DRL I was ridiculed because you're the author. Maybe if people spent less time reliant on statistics and more time listening to the real issues vocalized by true transit users (not suits in TTC HQ/City Hall), we'd have the idyllic GTA-wide network this forum yearns to attain.
About Sheppard-Markham, say to Scarborough Centre was already a subway, would you be so quick to condemn a 'Malvern' extension as useless? I don't see anywhere else the line could naturally go but there. And closing off the loop too soon with the Sheppard Line at STC would leave a half-million Scarborough ferrying upwards of an hour to STC still.
My word choice was intentional. Go to a tenement house around Kingston/Galloway and see how many low-income residents give a flying fig what technology gets them to their destinations. These are the real people affected by this, not suits elected by Scarborough Bluff ogliarchy.
Ha, ha, ha
! I really am getting it from all sides this week. Wanna know something... newsflash, I dislike the RT too. I'm a UTSC student and when class's done I prefer a 1 hour commute to York Mills or if timed right a brisk 25 mins ride to Kennedy via the 116E. Coming to school however SRT's almost inavoidable to ride, so given that nothing gets me to the 38 bus faster than 8 mins, I endure. Now I could be selfish and say convert the SRT as I would get there even faster.
However realizing that 000s more than myself are in need in the northeast quadrant, I can sacrifice nepotism and do what's in the best interest of the greatest number. No matter what, unless you're fortunate enough to have your house, job and recreation located all along the same route, chances are every single commuter on earth has to transfer vehicles at some point. Hence one lousy interchange ain't going to kill anyone.
Obviously I wasn't being serious, it's just some posters feel the need to overemphasize everything I say in the hopes of discrediting me. Sometimes I deliberately say outlandish things just for laughs e.g. saying 'idiotizing' in defense of not being an idiot. You people are too serious sometimes, lighten up a little
.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Why aren't you making the connection here? You'd get there faster with a subway extension, but so would everybody else. It's not selfish when everyone benefits!
Cast_Member
Active Member
LRTs doesn't mean they will totally run on the streets, you have ignored the fact it could be run like subways e.g. Calgary and Edmonton LRTs. TTC just need a larger type of streetcars run those LRT lines.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Yes, Ed, but that was 100 years ago and those kind of balls don't exist any more. Except maybe for a road.
My prescription: Subway to STC, LRT from there to Sheppard, rip up SRT and double the Stouffville line in the corridor.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
The TTC is buying larger LRVs for the Transit City routes. You can find out a lot about them in different threads. Most LRTs around the world run in off-road corridors, but the TTC has adopted a policy that LRT should be in the median of the street wherever remotely possible.
dowlingm, they built a very similar bridge over the Don for the Sheppard just a few years ago. It's hardly an engineering obstacle worth mentioning.
Dan416
Senior Member
I still think we should have a vote here on UT on the different corridors and that way, as a forum, we can select the best mode of transit (i.e. subway vs. LRT vs. BRT. vs do-nothing). Then make a proposal to Metrolinx
bjl
New Member
LOL, dentrobate's acting like a white man with a chip on his shoulder
dentrobate, a physics major you're not....have you ever been to any kind of science class? Your trolling is laughable, your scientific explanations, hilarious....keep up the entertainment, old man!
bjl
New Member
No, don't flatter yourself too much, it's:
Call dentrobate on his BS week, and there's a lot of material to cover....a lot!
Oh please, you were called on your idocy, and now you try to slime your way out of it like this? What are you, 12?