Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[JoeParez]

And @Joe - I'm sure P&S shots will be fine. We're not looking for Edward Burtynsky stuff here.

Phew! What a relief.
However, there are some well framed shots in the Building and Construction forum and the Then and Now thread has some very good photographers trying to stage the same "now" photos as the "then" photos.

 

[Palma]

I wouldn't say very few. Every Station on the Yonge Line and Bloor Danforth Line represents the street that it crosses (with the exception of a few cases or places where the street names change (i.e. Carlton/College, York Mills/Wilson, or a mall like Yorkdale).

Yes we could have different names on the University Line (akin to the Spadina portion of the line), but its really not that confusing. Also, other than possible revenue for naming rights, why would we change Queen to Eaton Centre South? Or Dundas to Dundas Square or College to College Park? I agree with the change to Downsview for many of the reasons people have noted, but not with these changes.

I agree. I cannot believe people wanting to change names to existing established on the University Line or Yonge Line

 

[Palma]

@Alvin - Vaughan is shelling out money. More specifically, York Region is paying the municipal 1/3 of costs for everything north of Steeles so taxpayers in Vaughan (and Markham, and Georgina, and Newmarket etc.) are paying.
.

And who will be paying the annual operational costs of the subway north of Steeles?

 

[nfitz]

And who will be paying the annual operational costs of the subway north of Steeles?

I don't think that's been determined yet.

Region of York pays TTC to operate the buses that go north of Steeles. Presumably they'd do the same with subways, and charge a double fare for those that travel south of Steeles West.

 

[Transportfan]

The subway will be part of the TTC fare zone.

 

[nfitz]

The subway will be part of the TTC fare zone.

Do you have a reference for that? I'm not disbelieving you ... I just haven't seen anything clear. And that certainly makes the most sense if Region of York covers the operating cost.

 

[Solid Snake]

Ridiculous. Considering Vaughan isn't shelling out any money, they should just shove it.

AoD

They shouldn't even get the subway in the first place. That money would have brought Eglinton farther west

 

[Transportfan]

Do you have a reference for that? I'm not disbelieving you ... I just haven't seen anything clear. And that certainly makes the most sense if Region of York covers the operating cost.

I read it earlier in this thread I believe and at the Transit Toronto site.

To simplify fare collection, Spadina stations north of Steeles Avenue would be considered within the TTC fare zone, with no transfers offered or accepted from connecting York Region Transit routes. The TTC would be entitled to all fare revenue from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre and Highway 407 stations, and be responsible for the stations upkeep. Service would likely split at Steeles West, with every other train turning back there, and the remainder continuing into Vaughan.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5114.shtml

 

[nfitz]

I read it earlier in this thread I believe and at the Transit Toronto site.
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5114.shtml

Ah, interesting. We should ask James then what his source was. Perhaps there was something in the agreement between Toronto, York, Ontario, and Canada. Nothing to say that TTC wouldn't be looking for an operating subsidy from York, like it gets from Toronto.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

This fare breakdown was always my understanding as well.

The TTC bus routes are totally different. They're effectively charter routes YRT is paying them to do.

I expect at some point there will be fare zones added to Presto but failing that it makes total sense that TTC gets 100% of the fares collected in York Region (as well as parking revenue, btw). They might want a further operating subsidy but it's not in the current agreement so, doubtful.

 

[gweed123]

This fare breakdown was always my understanding as well.

The TTC bus routes are totally different. They're effectively charter routes YRT is paying them to do.

I expect at some point there will be fare zones added to Presto but failing that it makes total sense that TTC gets 100% of the fares collected in York Region (as well as parking revenue, btw). They might want a further operating subsidy but it's not in the current agreement so, doubtful.

I would think that, at least in the short-term, this agreement may actually turn a profit for the TTC. The stations and tunnels aren't going to require significant maintenance for quite a while, so it's really just cleaning and fare booth staff expenses (as well as hydro, water, etc). That is more than covered by the fares generated, let alone the parking fees.

This could work out to be a nice padding for the TTC's bottom line. After all, it's the bus routes that the TTC loses money on, not the subway routes (I think even Sheppard about breaks even).

 

[Voltz]

I would think that, at least in the short-term, this agreement may actually turn a profit for the TTC. The stations and tunnels aren't going to require significant maintenance for quite a while, so it's really just cleaning and fare booth staff expenses (as well as hydro, water, etc). That is more than covered by the fares generated, let alone the parking fees.

This could work out to be a nice padding for the TTC's bottom line. After all, it's the bus routes that the TTC loses money on, not the subway routes (I think even Sheppard about breaks even).

Everything that I have read about the Spadina extension indicates that it will be a money loser. Never mind the massive amount of money that is being spent on building it.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Nfitz was asking for a source on the fare agreement. This is from York Region's April 2007 council minutes:

73 Subway Extension to Vaughan Corporate Centre - Operating Agreement Update

It was moved by Regional Councillor Ferri, seconded by Regional Councillor Frustaglio, that Council adopt the recommendations contained in the confidential report of the Rapid Transit Public/Private Partnership Steering Committee (April 12, 2007) as follows:

1. Council approve in principle an arrangement for operation of the Spadina Subway Extension in York Region with the TTC, with the following general provisions:

a) The TTC would be the sole owner and operator of the subway system within York
Region;
b) York Region would pay the capital cost for construction of the subway within York Region as per the cost sharing agreement approved by Council on September 21, 2006;
c) The TTC would assume all operating risk and financial responsibility, including fare revenue and operating costs;
d) A single TTC fare would be charged to customers of the Spadina Subway extension within York Region;
e) York Region would make no financial contribution to ongoing operations;
f) The cost of capital rehabilitation and replacement for the subway system within York Region would be the responsibility of the TTC and the City of Toronto;
g) York Region would be saved harmless from any future capital or operating costs or related liabilities;
h) The TTC would operate the subway line within York Region with “minimum service levels” for service frequency, hours of operation and station cleanliness consistent with average service levels on the TTC subway;
i) York Region would be responsible for bus terminal operations and related operating costs at subway stations within York Region; and
j) York Region would own the lands on which Commuter parking lots were situated.
2. The approval in principle noted in Recommendation 1 be subject to the following conditions:

a) York Region explore options with Toronto to share credit for ridership for purposes of the gas tax or any performance-based transit subsidy.
b) In the event of a change in subway system ownership, York Region would be saved harmless from any future operating charge or be recognized for its original capital investment;
c) York Region would retain control of bus terminals;
d) Staff report back with further analysis and options for commuter parking;
e) York Region would retain all development/air rights at subway stations and throughout the subway corridor in York Region; and
f) In the event of a change in TTC’s fare structure (currently a single fare for the entire subway system), transit riders within York Region would not bear undue hardship.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Would kind of suck if you're only travelling from VCC to Highway 407 station and then transferring again.

 

[nfitz]

Nfitz was asking for a source on the fare agreement. This is from York Region's April 2007 council minutes:

Thanks!

Wow ... no financial contribution. I assume TTC and/or City of Toronto have approved similar terms somewhere. I had no idea that Toronto taxpayers were going to have to fund operation of this. I'd think at least Region of York would have to pick up the 50-cents or so subsidy per rider that the City pays!

I guess there will be some good cash from York students who take the current York buses, who will now have to change at Highway 407 station or Vaughan Megaplex Centre to get to York U, instead of their direct bus ... but will it make up for all those who are already paying a TTC fare to board at Downsview or Finch?