Toronto Sherbourne Common, Canada's Sugar Beach, and the Water's Edge Promenade | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto | Teeple Architects

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I love how some would complain about WT/Sugar Beach and then tell us about Chicago. As a point of comparison, the Crown Fountain at Millennium Park alone cost 17 Million (US) in the early 2000s - more than the budget of the entire Sugar Beach, granite, umbrellas, sand, fountain all included. I haven't even started on the building and operating cost of other attractions such as Adler Planetarium (where is ours?), Soldier's Field, etc, etc.

This is why Toronto don't get nice things - populated by people who wanted class but are unwilling to pay for it.

AoD

 

[junior43]

Agreed. I would rather the umbrellas be done right the first time and last several years, enduring all sorts of brual environmental conditions, than have to repeatedly replacem several times over, cheap, low-specc'd crap that was ostensibly chosen to save "the taxpayer."

Question - what is several years? I'd assume 20 years for this price.

Anyways, I believe these were specifically designed for this park (not in a suppliers catalog), if this is the case i do understand the price for designing and testing and then having a limited run. Which leads to my next point ( dream maybe)

It would be awesome to have clusters of these umbrellas on all our natural beaches as well. Sunny side, woodbine, bluffers, cherry, and all the rest. It could become a 'trademark' look for our beaches. Plus, unit cost should come way down on the manufacturing of these - designs are all done, and they know they have repeat business.

I know it's a dream to talk about doing this on existing beaches, but it's nice to pretend every once and a while.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Question - what is several years? I'd assume 20 years for this price.

Anyways, I believe these were specifically designed for this park (not in a suppliers catalog), if this is the case i do understand the price for designing and testing and then having a limited run. Which leads to my next point ( dream maybe)

It would be awesome to have clusters of these umbrellas on all our natural beaches as well. Sunny side, woodbine, bluffers, cherry, and all the rest. It could become a 'trademark' look for our beaches. Plus, unit cost should come way down on the manufacturing of these - designs are all done, and they know they have repeat business.

I know it's a dream to talk about doing this on existing beaches, but it's nice to pretend every once and a while.

15, 20 years is the quoted figure. I totally agree with bulk purchasing to lower the cost, but that requires a civic commitment that is AWOL. Doesn't help that our mayor is utterly lacking in this regard.

AoD

 

[khris]

I really don't get why Rob Ford is all over this park all of a sudden? I guess he needs to find something to complain about to get the votes. Did I just answer my own question?
He's acting like this park went up while he was gone for 2 months. So strange how he gets away with this crap.

 

[junior43]

15, 20 years is the quoted figure. I totally agree with bulk purchasing to lower the cost, but that requires a civic commitment that is AWOL. Doesn't help that our mayor is utterly lacking in this regard.

AoD

Oh I know. Any mayor would have trouble driving this. But phased in with other work at those beaches and it should be a reasonable expense - and politically palatable.

 

[junior43]

I really don't get why Rob Ford is all over this park all of a sudden? I guess he needs to find something to complain about to get the votes. Did I just answer my own question?
He's acting like this park went up while he was gone for 2 months. So strange how he gets away with this crap.

It's pink 'gravy'.

He's trying to get his mojo back - gravy trains and subways.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I really don't get why Rob Ford is all over this park all of a sudden? I guess he needs to find something to complain about to get the votes. Did I just answer my own question?
He's acting like this park went up while he was gone for 2 months. So strange how he gets away with this crap.

His base need something to get worked up - helps that this is in downtown and lead by the so called elites. On a personal level,a Rob and Doug got spanked by WT over his Portlands mall scheme and this is payback.

AoD

 

[argus]

I love how some would complain about WT/Sugar Beach and then tell us about Chicago. As a point of comparison, the Crown Fountain at Millennium Park alone cost 17 Million (US) in the early 2000s - more than the budget of the entire Sugar Beach, granite, umbrellas, sand, fountain all included. I haven't even started on the building and operating cost of other attractions such as Adler Planetarium (where is ours?), Soldier's Field, etc, etc.

This is why Toronto don't get nice things - populated by people who wanted class but are unwilling to pay for it.

AoD

Absolutely correct. If there was a "like" button for comments, this would get it plus multiple exclamations.

The mayor is after a victim for his electoral wrath. He has no vision for how the waterfront should be, so his next best thing is to disparage the work of others.

 

[typezed]

I wonder what the inflation-adjusted costs of the landfill parks like Ashbridges and Bluffers are relative to these new high-concept parks. I like Sugar Beach and the Music Garden well enough but I think those other parks bring more recreational opportunity and true character to the city. I grew skeptical of the new breed of park when I saw that people thought building a park around a voiceprint of June Callwood saying something inspirational was a brainwave worth following. Whether or not Sugar Beach is good bang for the buck, maybe we could dial it back some on parks that come with artist's statements, even if they do look great in renders and design magazines. Sometimes grass, trees, good drainage, a place to sit and maybe a little trickle of water makes for just fine parkland.

 

[argus]

Sometimes grass, trees, good drainage, a place to sit and maybe a little trickle of water makes for just fine parkland.

Not like those types of parks are going to be in short supply.

Sugar Beach is a small park that is a success because it sits smack in an highly urban environment. It is an oasis of sorts. It is also a very creative design - smart, playful and attractive. It's popular even in the winter months.

 

[junior43]

I wonder what the inflation-adjusted costs of the landfill parks like Ashbridges and Bluffers are relative to these new high-concept parks. I like Sugar Beach and the Music Garden well enough but I think those other parks bring more recreational opportunity and true character to the city. I grew skeptical of the new breed of park when I saw that people thought building a park around a voiceprint of June Callwood saying something inspirational was a brainwave worth following. Whether or not Sugar Beach is good bang for the buck, maybe we could dial it back some on parks that come with artist's statements, even if they do look great in renders and design magazines. Sometimes grass, trees, good drainage, a place to sit and maybe a little trickle of water makes for just fine parkland.

That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison for several reasons. Ash bridges and Bluffers were also done as part of waterfront shoreline management. Also they got to create more land in their designs - suger beach didn't. It's sort of an infill urban park vs the other which are far more spacious.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I wonder what the inflation-adjusted costs of the landfill parks like Ashbridges and Bluffers are relative to these new high-concept parks. I like Sugar Beach and the Music Garden well enough but I think those other parks bring more recreational opportunity and true character to the city. I grew skeptical of the new breed of park when I saw that people thought building a park around a voiceprint of June Callwood saying something inspirational was a brainwave worth following. Whether or not Sugar Beach is good bang for the buck, maybe we could dial it back some on parks that come with artist's statements, even if they do look great in renders and design magazines. Sometimes grass, trees, good drainage, a place to sit and maybe a little trickle of water makes for just fine parkland.

Both types of parks have their place, and you'd be having some more passive parks like West8's Ontario Place as well. Not a huge fan of the June Callwood Park design, but I think I will make a more final judgement after it opens.

AoD

 

[taal]

As someone else pointed above I found the millenium park perplexing to say the least ... they said the cost there ... 300 million if I recall (yes I'm not exaggerating) was somehow justified as the location was prominent ?

Without a doubt, if this was built on our central waterfront or Dundas square the same author would have complained about the cost in either case ... in other words this is a garbage piece of journalism with a clear secondly agenda in mind.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

As someone else pointed above I found the millenium park perplexing to say the least ... they said the cost there ... 300 million if I recall (yes I'm not exaggerating) was somehow justified as the location was prominent ?

Without a doubt, if this was built on our central waterfront or Dundas square the same author would have complained about the cost in either case ... in other words this is a garbage piece of journalism with a clear secondly agenda in mind.

Yes the whole programme was about $500M US - they have corporate sponsors but the city ended up paying close to $300M for it. Extravagance aside, they were planning for a landmark and it showed. Can you imagine Toronto spending that amount on one public park alone? (and not mixed in with some infrastructural component, like QQ, which cost around ~100M inclusive)? Sorry folks, if you want to be Chicago, stop complaining about $12K umbrellas and get ready to pony up for $12M fountains or $12M pedestrian bridges across a 6 lane road instead. That, or a mayor ballsy enough to send in the bulldozers overnight and rip a big X across the runway at their version of the Island Airport.

*end rant*

AoD

 

[DSC]

WT just posted this tender call, what's up?

Request for Prequalification (PQ) #2014-31: Sherbourne Common - Pavement Replacement


Waterfront Toronto (legally known as Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation) is seeking PQ submissions from firms interested in participating in a Request for Tender (RFT) to remove selected area materials, protect existing park structures/features, clean temporarily exposed surfaces, supply/install new materials, and provide general cleanup of area and make good.

Interested Firms who have the requisite experience and resources are invited to submit their proposals for this PQ.

Please note the submission deadline for the PQ is July 25, 2014 by 12:00 p.m. local time.