Toronto Rental Cost (& AirBnB) Issues

[Avenue]

It’s the risk. I can’t risk coming back from my placement to a tenant who doesn’t want to leave or is causing me issues in the LTB. Too many horror stories and I cannot risk that with my primary residence.

Courts and arbitrators favour the tenant and not the landlord.

I get what you're saying and the horror stories, but I also don't have a problem with favouring tenants a little - because housing is not exactly a casual service or transaction and it can't be conceptualized in free market terms.

Uprooting tenants arbitrarily (already happens a lot) has economic and social consequences and needs to be somewhat mitigated. You need to provide people like service industry workers and students some sort of cushion with evictions so that their daily lives aren't turned upside down.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I don't understand what's false about having to pay them a month's rent. That's rent, no?

It's one month's-worth of rent money.

Now, if you're the rat landlord I have, then you just terminate the lease illegally under false pretenses and don't pay your tenant anything.

 

[SunriseChampion]

For rent? Four years ago I rented a new 2 bedroom condo on the subway line for $1800. The following year (3 years ago), I moved into a new-build one bedroom (about 580 sq ft) condo (no longer on the subway) for $1200. In the three years since then, those prices have gone up by about 60-70%+. I don't think there was that huge of an increase prior to that. I understand my experience is anecdotal, and applies more to the condo-rental market than the apartment market (which tends to have higher rents), but it still shows just how big the increase has been.

A negative for me, and I assume many others, is that it has forced me to stay in my current unit because moving anywhere would be so expensive.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[Bayer]

I have been an owner and a tenant of condos, and no owner I have rented from (both for 10 years) bothered to respect the law. One asked for a key deposit; both refused to pay me interest on my deposit (a sizable amount after 10 years), and I didn't want to waste my time taking them to the tribunal. Forgive me for having little sympathy for condo owners who rent. You want an investment? Then you have to tolerate the risks.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I have been an owner and a tenant of condos, and no owner I have rented from (both for 10 years) bothered to respect the law. One asked for a key deposit; both refused to pay me interest on my deposit (a sizable amount after 10 years), and I didn't want to waste my time taking them to the tribunal. Forgive me for having little sympathy for condo owners who rent. You want an investment? Then you have to tolerate the risks.

Yup, that's my current landlord: no clue as to the law....or even a sense of ethics.
My previous one was a proper human though.

In the long run, I've had half and half, half good, half bad landlords.

Never know what you're going to get.

I find the investor landlords really shouldn't. They're a joke. They think it's easy money, all expenses paid. Led around by the bollocks by their shady realtors.

 

[jje1000]

On the Airbnb side:

Appeal stalls Toronto’s short-term rental rules for at least at year

An appeal of new rules for Toronto’s short-term rental housing has been postponed for a year, leaving the regulations in limbo as the city undergoes what critics call a “destructive rental crisis.”

City council approved the restrictions, including a ban on nightly rentals of self-contained basement apartments and otherwise vacant condos, last December. They were set to go into effect at the beginning of June, until three short-term rental operators appealed the bylaw change to the tribunal’s predecessor, the Ontario Municipal Board.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...t-term-rental-rules-for-at-least-at-year.html

In Vancouver:

Over 2,400 Airbnb listings disappear as Vancouver enforces new rules

VANCOUVER—The city says its new regulations for short-term rental listings have resulted in more than 2,400 Airbnb listings being deactivated and 660 more being removed voluntarily or switched to long-term rentals.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2...isappear-as-vancouver-enforces-new-rules.html

Thousands of listings pulled off Airbnb as Vancouver's new rules come into effect

The city says the number of listings on Airbnb has fallen from 6,600 in April to 3,742 after the new rules came into effect on September 1.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...couver-s-new-rules-come-into-effect-1.4081831

 

[SunriseChampion]

I honestly don't believe curtailing short-term rentals will do anything for affordability.

Small increases in supply will only fuel demand. The level of supply increase we need is well beyond a few thousand rental units.

I've given up on the scene, to be honest. After I'm done paying my debts, I'll probably be joining my friends in small-town British Columbia. I've even contemplated defaulting on my debts just to get away from my job and the cost of housing in this town.

 

[TrickyRicky]

We’ll see how it goes in 2020 but the median age in Ward 19 Trinity Spadina for instance decreased 2011-2016. Evidently all the kids are not moving to Hamilton, to small towns, out of Province or out of the country.

 

[jje1000]

As Toronto has grown, it's become more unaffordable. Is it a problem city politicians can even fix?

Her comments fall in line with the findings of a new Forum Research poll, conducted in advance of the Oct. 22 election, which suggests nearly 80 per cent of Toronto voters feel this city is becoming unaffordable. Among respondents, about one third (36 per cent) said real estate prices contribute most to the problem, while 23 per cent blamed rental costs.

Other factors cited include wages not keeping pace with the cost of living, (13 per cent of respondents) property taxes, (7 per cent) underfunded public services, (5 per cent) utilities, (5 per cent), insurance, (5 per cent) and food prices, (3 per cent).

https://www.thestar.com/news/toront...ew-poll-suggests-most-torontonians-agree.html

 

[TheKingEast]

But I thought Mother Wynne created all these rules to make rent more affordable by pandering to renters who wanted subsidized rent. I am oh so shocked that the rules to increase affordability took so many buyers out of the market and created more renters, thus increasing demand for rent. Oh but wait, that Hail Mary rent control policy also put upwards pressure on rent prices. You mean rent control actually doesn’t work? Only an idiot would disagree. So here we are. Wynne is long gone and we are now going to spend so much time and money to undo her damage.

For those renters complaining about a key deposit? I wouldn’t ask for one if landlords had just a bit more rights. If a tenant moves out without providing the fob and/or key then there is no way I’m going to get the money for it when the tenant is long gone. Even if it is determined by LTB that the tenant owes me the money, there’s nothing forcing the tenant to pay me.

Also, interest on a deposit? The money is negligible in most cases especially before the new rules because the landlord could just recoup it from increasing the rent. So a guy who doesn’t want to pay a key deposit then hounding a landlord for $5 10 bucks? If your landlord raised rent every year by a large amount I get it. But if not then I don’t get it.

I do agree with one thing though. Aspiring landlords should think twice about becoming a landlord. The rules are heavily in favour of tenants, rent control limits are absurd and some tenants feel like they are owed accommodation in prime areas. Why do you think builders aren’t building rentals anymore?

I’m approaching 10 years as a landlord. I have learned that giving tenants breaks only hurts you in the end. Be fair of course, but run it like a business. No, you can’t move in a day early. No, I will not lower my asking price. No, I will not address the neighbor 2 doors down that throws house parties. No I will not let you drill holes in the wall. And I sure as hell will vet you big time.

The more the rules favour tenants the more landlords have to take precautions to protect their investments. Tenants can pay no rent for months and all a landlord can do is hope they move after going through the process of eviction. Tenant leaves your property like a complete dump, there is nothing a landlord can do.

So , look at it from both sides and push for equal rights. I have experience as a tenant and landlord. Landlords don’t live lavish lives contrary to what some tenants believe.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Also, the province controlled Landlord Tenant Board and Residential Tenancy Act legislation are highly unfair to landlords, further discouraging matters. You should be able to get rid of a deadbeat tenant without losing your shirt.

I agree. My family owns rental property, and the nightmare stories of trying to get rid of a shitty tenant are legend. My uncle had a house near high park that was converted to a duplex rental. After years of tenants that refused to pay the rent but wouldn’t leave, tried to sublet, damaged property, and otherwise violated the lease, whilst my uncle spent months of his time and money at the LTB courts, he said screw it and sold the house under the tenant, the new buyers pushed out the tenants and converted the house back into a single home. My uncle took his cash and two rental units left the system.

Make it easier for property owners to rent out their units. Simple.

 

[TheKingEast]

I agree. My family owns rental property, and the nightmare stories of trying to get rid of a shitty tenant are legend. My uncle had a house near high park that was converted to a duplex rental. After years of tenants that refused to pay the rent but wouldn’t leave, tried to sublet, damaged property, and otherwise violated the lease, whilst my uncle spent months of his time and money at the LTB courts, he said screw it and sold the house under the tenant, the new buyers pushed out the tenants and converted the house back into a single home. My uncle took his cash and two rental units left the system.

Make it easier for property owners to rent out their units. Simple.

I’ve had my own issues with tenants leaving the place like an absolute dump and not a single thing I can do about it. We have 0 rights. Then when we sell the government puts their hand out for their cut. Getting screwed on both ends. In this current age, why would anyone want to purchase property to rent out. It makes 0 financial sense. Let the government deal with the mess they caused.

 

[Jasmine18]

I think the solution is to frankly have small apartment buildings being built in the inner suburbs that can take over really underdeveloped retail strips and such.

I think that is the easiest way to greatly increase the housing stock.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Instead of focusing on supply, why not address demand, but on a provincial scale. For starters, if you’re not employed in the city, there is no reason for TCHC tenants to reside in city units. Instead, build public housing outside the GTA, in order to clear inventory for those who need to live in the city. Next, force Ottawa to push new immigrants to live elsewhere. We have a huge country, there’s no reason for everyone to move to Toronto, especially for those who don’t work here.

A similar chat on supply and demand on housing here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...cates-reject-law-supply-demand/?noredirect=on

Our premier sees himself as both the super mayor and the city’s saviour on the housing issue. So, let’s see what he does on this file. Hopefully he’s not just tweaking the supply side of the equation.

 

[doug]

You want an investment? Then you have to tolerate the risks.

You want to be a renter? Then you have to tolerate the risks.