Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[the lemur]

No, it doesn't mean it's ok. It's just that people seem to be thinking that cars on the ROW and streetcar/collisions are new things on the new QQ, but they're not.

I don't know if people think they can just scoot in front of a streetcar or why they think they should be able to run a red (maybe a red light is just a suggestion?), but it's certainly not unique to QQ unfortunately.

It happened a fair bit when the Spadina ROW reopened. The signals were not the issue - drivers just assumed they could zip in front of a streetcar because, hey, streetcars are slow, right? And they can stop on a dime, can't they?

 

[the lemur]

Listen. People are just plain stupid (I have a more "firm" less PG13 word to describe them). I witnessed today a driver totally clueless to a policemen directing an intersection. The driver totally froze, and didn't know what to do until police officer approached his car and started to yell at him for not following directions. I am amazed how horrible and clueless are drivers here. We wouldn't have traffic problems if we revoke licences from clueless horrible drivers...

Ha, I saw pretty much the same scenario once during a charity bike ride ... for whatever reason the driver just would not advance into the intersection and the cop was totally losing his temper. Like I thought he was going to pull the guy out of the car by force and drive it across by himself.

 

[the lemur]

I did not witness the collision occur but managed to make it to the scene not long after.

According to witnesses (and frankly it was plainly obvious what had happened even before speaking to them, as you will see in the below photos), at Queen's Quay and Simcoe, a westbound VW Golf ran the red light on the westbound-to-southbound left turn signal when westbound 509 CLRV 4141 was proceeding on a green light at cruising speed. The car was consequently t-boned by the streetcar. It looks like the streetcar driver had time to apply the brakes to some extent, or was not travelling very fast, but that's just my impression based on the positioning of the vehicles and the damage to each.


The vehicle that ran the red light and caused the collision:

View attachment 48223

Could have been quite a bit worse if the streetcar had hit the driver's door instead, but the fact that the side curtain airbags activated gives you an idea of the impact!

 

[Napoleon]

I think the solution to this problem is twofold:
1) Better enforcement. In Sydney, for example, transit lanes have automated camera enforcement, and it's very clearly marked with large signs advertising the restriction, the presence of the camera, and sometimes the fine amount. That would keep cars of the ROW. Second, let's just install red-light cameras at the intersections. Mail everyone a ticket who turns left on red….that'll stop repeat offenders.

2) Better signal and lane markings. I'm convinced from looking at the 45 minutes of photos shot the other day, that there's just a fundamental problem with the clarity of lane and signal markings. Yes, some of it will dissipate as people get used to it, but for a driver who's never been here before, it should be crystal clear exactly where they should be, and where they should not be. When that many drivers are making a mistake, it's not just the intentional ones…some of them are ending up where they shouldn't because they're confused. The city should study best practices from Europe/elsewhere and implement them to eliminate this confusion.

 

[Lyphe]

Sorry, that was probably the dumbest comment I've ever made. I knew that they were doing the whole thing, and it was being done in sections. For some reason when I read Hume's article and it said they were only going to Jarvis I jumped to a conclusion. I'm going to chalk that up to having not had my morning tea yet. Cool?
Moving on...

Oh great, now I fell terrible lol. All good.

 

[Megaton327]

Fresh shots from Queen's Quay this afternoon. First two pics show progress at rees--pavers have been installed for the east half of the roadway on the south side, and they have moved traffic onto that side to complete the other half; mixing zone is nearly complete on both sides--finally looking like even this intersection will make the 19th...still missing bicycle signals though, very strangely:

They've also started to paint some of the blue boxes at intersections on the MGT. No lines or maple leaf stencils yet but presumably coming soon:

And finally, I can't post pictures of Queen's Quay without posting at least one instance of driver stupidity! This time, ladies and gentlemen, I present a school bus driver for some sort of special event that was trying to make a right turn from eastbound Queen's Quay southbound onto the east leg of Robertson Crescent, which is a prohibited right turn seeing as Robertson is one-way northbound there! After sitting through an entire cycle of the light deciding what to do--thank goodness at least he didn't make the turn--the guy stopped more or less right in the middle of the intersection and let his passengers out directly into the TTC ROW with a green light to potentially get hit by streetcars! Also blocked traffic for quite a while, as you can see behind him, there were also people trying to exit Robertson who had to maneuver around him. In total he completely blocked eastbound traffic for about 5-6 minutes:

They've done part of the line and blue box painting on the western MGT extension from Yo Yo Ma to Bathurst as well, and resignalling at Yo Yo Ma, Spadina, and the loop was ongoing. I hope to drop by again this evening for some shots of all that.

 

[PinkLucy]

Going by on the streetcar today I saw at least one of the blue boxes on the MGT that had directional info on it, i.e., Yonge Street.

I also saw pedestrians crossing at the "do not cross here" signs.

And I saw a TTC worker shoo a driver out of the streetcar ROW on Fleet St.

Stupidity abounds

 

[Megaton327]

Going by on the streetcar today I saw at least one of the blue boxes on the MGT that had directional info on it, i.e., Yonge Street.

That is a test painting that has been there for about a week now--it is located just off the Peter Slip Bridge, by the loop if I remember correctly, nowhere near Yonge Street. The MGT is only half-paved there and this painting will be paved over--scheduled for tomorrow. The final painting will have the street names at the correct intersections like the section east of Bay currently does.

 

[DKsan]

While they still have the Yonge Stencil(?), they should repaint the box and sign at Yonge Street. When I walked by yesterday, it was quite faded.

 

[Dan416]

As much as I emphatically believe that tons of people are quite stupid, I agree that the signage and the signals along QQ are quite confusing, based on the pictures.

 

[reaperexpress]

I checked out the construction progress today, and noticed that almost none of the markings on the northbound approaches of intersections have been installed yet. The fact that there are no stop bar, lane markings, guide lines, crosswalks or crossrides is likely a major contributor to the high rate of ridiculous driving. Additionally, the southbound left turn guide lines are not yet installed at Queens Quay and Spadina, so it's not surprising that people are turning left onto the ROW rather than the roadway.

I did see many instances of people blatantly disregarding perfectly obvious signage as well, including one man who turned left into Robertson against a straight through green arrow, two "no left turn" signs, two "do not enter" signs and a roadway too narrow to comfortably pass the northbound vehicle legally waiting at the signal. As I pointed the vehicle out, the driver motioned at me to suggest that he was fully aware that he was breaking countless traffic regulations.

The crossover signal just west of Spadina was activated today, and a serious issue immediately became apparent. There is a set of vehicle signals a few metres ahead of the stop bar (roughly the ordinary distance), and as per the Ontario Traffic Manual Book 12 (Traffic Signals), signals are also provided on the far side of the intersection. But this is a loooong intersection, so there is actually a significant travel time between the two sets of signals. Drivers who pass through the first set on amber arrive at the second set after it has turned red, and a large proportion understandably stop - right on the streetcar tracks.

In my opinion, we need to immediately remove the far side signals, and make a quick write-up to justify our non-compliance with the OTM. It is after all a set of guidelines, not regulations.

 

[Kitsune]

... I wonder if the thunderstorm had something to do with the issues. It was strong enough to rotate one of the traffic light arms at the fire station 45 degrees so it was facing the wrong direction. Knowing how strong the winds get in that area, everytime we have a wind storm I feel there going have to have someone repair the instersection. IE last November one of the traffic lights was snapped in two.

 

[NBGtect]

In a recent NA study, Volkswagen drivers had the highest rates of causing collisions. We have been saying for years how the little Golf and Jetta drivers are the worst for taking so many risky and stupid moves in our experience. So no wonder so many VW drivers can't get through the length of QQ without causing something! Slow down. Read signs. Use logic. Or stop driving and let the rest of us get to work on time rather than big delays colliding with a streetcar. The road wasn't just made for you and your own little world.

 

[PinkLucy]

In a recent NA study, Volkswagen drivers had the highest rates of causing collisions. We have been saying for years how the little Golf and Jetta drivers are the worst for taking so many risky and stupid moves in our experience. So no wonder so many VW drivers can't get through the length of QQ without causing something! Slow down. Read signs. Use logic. Or stop driving and let the rest of us get to work on time rather than big delays colliding with a streetcar. The road wasn't just made for you and your own little world.

I drive a VW and I don't have an issue

 

[Megaton327]

The transit signal priority at Queen's Quay and Spadina was, in fact, functioning by about 10 PM this evening--the 510 turn phase was only occurring with a streetcar present, otherwise it was just switching between north/south and east/west. The loop had the turn phase happening every cycle, but the complex intersection/multiple turns there mean a couple of other signals are active at the same time so there's really no difference whether or not the streetcar turn signal goes or not.

The electric/automatic track switches, both at spadina and at the loop, were not working though--I am hoping that these will go live on June 16th-17th, the scheduled go-live dates for full transit priority along the entire street. I just hope there's not actually a problem with them and they're merely waiting on the last bit of work...

One strange thing is that westbound at the loop, straight-through westbound traffic on Queen's Quay, heading towards Spadina, got a red light every other cycle. As in eastbound cars had a green, eastbound AND westbound streetcars and bicycles had greens, all specifically signalled turns had reds, but westbound cars had reds. There was no obvious reason at all for this, and again, westbound and eastbound would both be green correctly one signal, only eastbound not westbound the next, switching back and forth. I guess they might have had an issue and may still need to fine-tune it, but work was scheduled to conclude today on the signals.

Looking forward to final MGT paving--currently fully paved from Bay to about halfway across the Peter Slip Bridge, then half-paved from there to the loop, then unpaved to Yo Yo Ma where it again becomes fully paved for the extension to Bathurst. Final coat is scheduled to go on from the bridge to the loop, and both coats from the loop across Spadina to Yo Yo Ma, tomorrow. I'll try to get some pictures if I can. Lane and decal painting will presumably follow over the weekend and/or next week for the opening on the 19th. Pictures from today:

MGT looking East from Bathurst:

MGT just East of Dan Leckie:

Crossover from the West (the Yo Yo Ma traffic signals are gone):

Crossover from the East:

Lower Spadina:

A school bus chartered for some sort of private event parked in the sole westbound lane just west of York, obstructing traffic for about 5 minutes: