News   Nov 29, 2024
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Toronto Pearson International Airport

It doesn't appear to be. It looks like a planned modernization of the older system, particularly what is operating out of T3.
 
We're about 6-12 months away from finding out how Qantas' latest challenge to Airbus and Boeing has gone. "Project sunrise" was a challenge to the big aircraft manufacturers to design a plane that could economically fly 250-300 people across 3-4 classes from Melbourne & Sydney non-stop to London and New York.

The longest of those sectors is Sydney-London (9,188 nautical miles, v 9,127nm for Melbourne-London). Melbourne-New York is the next longest sector (9,015nm versus 8,646nm for Sydney-New York) however, there's been no mention of Toronto which arguably should be on the cards at least in the medium term if the aircraft manufacturers can produce a plane that will be able to do what Qantas is asking for. It appears it's a competition between potential variants of the A350-1000 or B777X.

Melbourne-Toronto (MEL-YYZ) on great circle is 8,774nm (versus 9,015nm MEL-JFK above) and Sydney-Toronto (SYD-YYZ) is 8,397nm (versus 8,646nm SYD-JFK above). It goes without saying, if the planes will be able to make the trip to New York from Melbourne/Sydney, they'll be able to make it to Toronto.

The Australia-Canada bilateral was liberalised not long ago (there were silly old-school restrictions like only able to choose a max of two different ports in each respective country - it was removed so that AC is now free to fly YVR-SYD/BNE/MEL - and they're now doing that) and Qantas codeshares with Westjet. I dare say beefing up numbers on the main long-haul sectors won't be that much of an issue with Westjet feed being really good eastwards from Toronto to/from Ottawa, Montréal, Québec City and Halifax.

Yep 20 hours in economy would suck, but Qantas' Perth-London flight (17.5 hours) on a 787 is going great guns apparently and there's been talk of introducing common areas into the internal configuration for economy passengers on the project sunrise planes. If you don't want to fly Air Canada at the moment, to get from Austrlaia to Canada, excluding QF's seasonal SYD-YVR flight, you have to go via the US, NZ or a much longer pacific circle route (i.e AU-HKG-CA on Cathay).

The only other city mentioned as part of project sunrise is Paris/CDG but I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto gets a look in eventually as Qantas have barely any presence in Canada - this might be their avenue in (leaving AC alone on Vancouver-Australia routes).
 
Yep 20 hours in economy would suck, but Qantas' Perth-London flight (17.5 hours) on a 787 is going great guns apparently ...
20 hours in economy would suck - but Air Canada is currently flying Toronto to Sydney with a stop in Vancouver (AC33, 8,550 nautical miles) at only just over 20 hours. Presumably a direct flight would be a bit shorter. And surely better than having to do two legs.

Back in the 1980s I flew the London to Australia BA service, as far as Singapore. But it was 2 stops back then, with both the Persian Gulf and Singapore (or similar). Three roughly seven-hour legs. I remember getting off in Singapore, and feeling a lot of pity fore those who were getting off, only to reboard an hour later to keep flying! On the other hand, I'll probably never again have a reason to stand in the desert in Muscat, staring at such beautiful mountain scenery! It was like something out of Lawrence of Arabia!
 
Qantas has absolutely no intention of flying their own metal to Toronto, direct, or non-stop. They just didn't last long back in 2001 and they certainly can joint venture it ok.
 
We're about 6-12 months away from finding out how Qantas' latest challenge to Airbus and Boeing has gone. "Project sunrise" was a challenge to the big aircraft manufacturers to design a plane that could economically fly 250-300 people across 3-4 classes from Melbourne & Sydney non-stop to London and New York.

The longest of those sectors is Sydney-London (9,188 nautical miles, v 9,127nm for Melbourne-London). Melbourne-New York is the next longest sector (9,015nm versus 8,646nm for Sydney-New York) however, there's been no mention of Toronto which arguably should be on the cards at least in the medium term if the aircraft manufacturers can produce a plane that will be able to do what Qantas is asking for. It appears it's a competition between potential variants of the A350-1000 or B777X.

Melbourne-Toronto (MEL-YYZ) on great circle is 8,774nm (versus 9,015nm MEL-JFK above) and Sydney-Toronto (SYD-YYZ) is 8,397nm (versus 8,646nm SYD-JFK above). It goes without saying, if the planes will be able to make the trip to New York from Melbourne/Sydney, they'll be able to make it to Toronto.

The Australia-Canada bilateral was liberalised not long ago (there were silly old-school restrictions like only able to choose a max of two different ports in each respective country - it was removed so that AC is now free to fly YVR-SYD/BNE/MEL - and they're now doing that) and Qantas codeshares with Westjet. I dare say beefing up numbers on the main long-haul sectors won't be that much of an issue with Westjet feed being really good eastwards from Toronto to/from Ottawa, Montréal, Québec City and Halifax.

Yep 20 hours in economy would suck, but Qantas' Perth-London flight (17.5 hours) on a 787 is going great guns apparently and there's been talk of introducing common areas into the internal configuration for economy passengers on the project sunrise planes. If you don't want to fly Air Canada at the moment, to get from Austrlaia to Canada, excluding QF's seasonal SYD-YVR flight, you have to go via the US, NZ or a much longer pacific circle route (i.e AU-HKG-CA on Cathay).

The only other city mentioned as part of project sunrise is Paris/CDG but I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto gets a look in eventually as Qantas have barely any presence in Canada - this might be their avenue in (leaving AC alone on Vancouver-Australia routes).
Toronto (YYZ).- Johannesburg (JNB)
 
Qantas has absolutely no intention of flying their own metal to Toronto, direct, or non-stop. They just didn't last long back in 2001 and they certainly can joint venture it ok.
Well, if OneWorld want to leave it to the Star Alliance, then power to our (former) flag carrier. Super cool seeing the iconic rondelle in so many corners of the globe.
 
It's easy for OneWorld to sell it through Dallas/Los Angeles/San Francisco. They can also sell it via JFK.

When I worked at AC almost twenty years ago, they were talking about YYZ-JNB back then ! It's a really long and thin route and you'd need at three frames to make it work since it would need to be daily. The problem is that they don't have three free frames right now and most of the 789s have been delivered. I don't think there are too many aircraft yet to be delivered. Haven;t looked at the GC map but I'm not even sure the 789 could make it both ways. I don't even know if SAA and Delta still do the ATL-JNB route.
 
Its one thing to be able to fly the route. It is another to be able to do it profitably and at a competitive price point, and further more do it in an aircraft that fits into your fleet mix
 
Was in the Pearson area tonight, the place was a ghost town. Are flights being diverted?
 
Qantas has absolutely no intention of flying their own metal to Toronto, direct, or non-stop. They just didn't last long back in 2001 and they certainly can joint venture it ok.
2001 was a long time ago. Is it me, or are there a lot more Australians (and Kiwis) doing business in Toronto than there used to be?
 
I think the longest flight out of Toronto is the non stop to Hong Kong or Manilla

It's amazing that if you look at the top 5 by distance (Manila, Hong Kong, Taipei, Karachi & Addis Ababa) only one of them is operated by Air Canada. Shows that they are not pushing the opportunities to grow their network.
 
It's amazing that if you look at the top 5 by distance (Manila, Hong Kong, Taipei, Karachi & Addis Ababa) only one of them is operated by Air Canada. Shows that they are not pushing the opportunities to grow their network.

Air Canada should definitely Expand to Karachi/Islamabad. BA is returning to Islamabad in June. Other European carriers will flow soon. With a huge South Asian population in the GTA, this is a very lucrative route. Eithad/Emirates/PIA are sharing the revenue currently.
 

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