Toronto Parks

[freshcutgrass]

I'm not going to comment on other cities but on the population numbers for downtown Toronto: The figures on the link are largely 2006 numbers. That might not seem very old except that between 2009 and 2013 40% of 70,500 city-wide residential units were built in downtown Toronto. That works out to about 28,000 units or 7000 per year. The earlier figures noted in the report have similar growth numbers. Starting from a 2006 base of 168,600 people and assuming even one person per unit created, that could be 56,000 new people since the 2006 publication. That could represent a 33% population increase in population downtown 2006-2014, a not insignificant impact on the discussion here.

For the map represented in Canadian Urban Institute report (equals Wards 20, 27, 28 + the Niagara Neighbourhood), the population as of May 2011 was 242,815. (the 168,000 quote is from a slightly different map than the one they used) That's an increase of 37,190 over 2006, for an average increase of roughly 7,500/year. Apply that average to now, and it's more like 268,000...not 168,000. And the rate of condo intensification is increasing...not decreasing.

 

[freshcutgrass]

From page 8 of the Canadian Urban Institute report:

Population density/ha: Vancouver (176), Toronto (104)
Job density/ha: Vancouver (290), Toronto (260)

Jezuz...If you haven't clued into the apple/oranges part of this yet, then you are either just dense...or like I suggested...just trolling.

As for your misquote, this is what I said:

"Well downtown Vancouver manages to have far more parks (as per the document, “Vancouver has been in the process of building 8 downtown parks over the past 15 years”) than downtown Toronto despite having a significantly higher density. Downtown Vancouver also experienced a condo boom similar to downtown Toronto."

Yea, I know what you said. Except I'm wondering if you know what you said. You claim downtown Vancouver has "far more parks", and then quote something that says 8 parks have been in the process of being built over a 15 year period. How does this support your claim? You also gave a link to some Bay Street neighbourhood, which seems to have no purpose, except to possibly confuse you even more than you are.

And yea...Vancouver had a condo boom, but I wouldn't say it was very similar to downtown Toronto's.

 

[Ayan]

Jezuz...If you haven't clued into the apple/oranges part of this yet, then you are either just dense...or like I suggested...just trolling.


Yea, I know what you said. Except I'm wondering if you know what you said. You claim downtown Vancouver has "far more parks", and then quote something that says 8 parks have been in the process of being built over a 15 year period. How does this support your claim? You also gave a link to some Bay Street neighbourhood, which seems to have no purpose, except to possibly confuse you even more than you are.

And yea...Vancouver had a condo boom, but I wouldn't say it was very similar to downtown Toronto's.

There’s nothing wrong in the Canadian Urban Institute comparison of density on a per hectare basis. If you are unable to acknowledge that you were wrong when you repeatedly claimed that downtown Vancouver could not have higher density than downtown Toronto, that’s your problem.

The statement you misquoted (there appears to be a pattern here) actually says, “over the PAST 15 years.†Unlike Toronto, Vancouver ensured that its rising downtown population has access to quality neighborhood parks. As I suggested before, you should check it out on your own. It will help adjust your narrow Toronto-centric views.

Here’s a quote from the document (that according to you, has no purpose):

“Downtown Toronto has a severe lack of parks and outdoor recreational sites.â€

When it comes to urban living, there are things that Toronto can learn from Vancouver, especially since Toronto has followed Vancouver’s approach to increasing residential density in downtown. Apart from parks, transportation is another area where Toronto could do better. Between 1996 and 2011, the number of vehicles entering downtown Vancouver decreased (20%) even though during the same time period, downtown Vancouver population (75%) and jobs (26%) increased.

http://conf.tac-atc.ca/english/annualconference/tac2012/docs/session18/krueger.pdf

 

[nfitz]

I have been discussing parks (which may or may not have playgrounds) in the downtown areas of the three cities.

I was responding to the quote of yours "I think the fact that “The City of Toronto has the lowest allocation of park space per person in Canada” is a pretty negative finding!". Is that finding just for the downtown area?

You did not live in downtown Montreal in the 80's. You lived in an area comparable to Scarborough in terms of distance from downtown.

I'm afraid your geography isn't correct here. The Montreal example is only 5 km from Peel/deMaisoneuve. You don't even get to the edge of Scarborough at 5 km from Yonge. 5 km from Yonge gets you to near Coxwell.

In order to make a valid comparison, you need to look at playgrounds in neighbourhoods that are similar to the neighbourhood where you live now during time periods that are not more than 30 years apart.

I did. I compared to my current downgown neighbourhood near Gerrard/Coxwell. I'm not sure what 30 years has to do with it. I still visit frequently, there are no new playgrounds I'm aware of.

These are quite comparable neighbourhoods - all being built just after WW1. All being streetcar suburbs at the time they were built.

Likewise, the area where you stayed in Vancouver is also comparable to Scarborough in terms of distance from downtown.

The Vancouver example is 7.5 km from Howe/Davie ... still wouldn't get you to the edge of Scarborough, let alone the centre.

In addition, the experience of living in a city is not the same as visiting a city.

Because playgrounds magically appear when you live in a city? What a convenient way to dismiss any evidence from anywhere except where you currently live.

My point is clear. I see more small parks and playgrounds all around Toronto than I do in many other cities. That's true downtown as well, when I go from the office, there are several playgrounds within a short walk - so many in fact, I'm yet to drag the kids to all of them - and they keep building more! This isn't my experience in many cities. There certainly aren't as many playgrounds in UK cities. I've had similar issues in US cities such as Seattle and Los Angeles. Manhattan seemed to do well in my experience.

Toronto is very well blessed with parks and playgrounds - especially right downtown. I find claims otherwise rather bizarre given how difficult it is to find a park in Vancouver!

 

[Ayan]

I was responding to the quote of yours "I think the fact that “The City of Toronto has the lowest allocation of park space per person in Canada” is a pretty negative finding!". Is that finding just for the downtown area?


I'm afraid your geography isn't correct here. The Montreal example is only 5 km from Peel/deMaisoneuve. You don't even get to the edge of Scarborough at 5 km from Yonge. 5 km from Yonge gets you to near Coxwell.

I did. I compared to my current downgown neighbourhood near Gerrard/Coxwell. I'm not sure what 30 years has to do with it. I still visit frequently, there are no new playgrounds I'm aware of.

These are quite comparable neighbourhoods - all being built just after WW1. All being streetcar suburbs at the time they were built.

The Vancouver example is 7.5 km from Howe/Davie ... still wouldn't get you to the edge of Scarborough, let alone the centre.

Because playgrounds magically appear when you live in a city? What a convenient way to dismiss any evidence from anywhere except where you currently live.

My point is clear. I see more small parks and playgrounds all around Toronto than I do in many other cities. That's true downtown as well, when I go from the office, there are several playgrounds within a short walk - so many in fact, I'm yet to drag the kids to all of them - and they keep building more! This isn't my experience in many cities. There certainly aren't as many playgrounds in UK cities. I've had similar issues in US cities such as Seattle and Los Angeles. Manhattan seemed to do well in my experience.

Toronto is very well blessed with parks and playgrounds - especially right downtown. I find claims otherwise rather bizarre given how difficult it is to find a park in Vancouver!

It’s not clear to me why you arbitrarily chose “Peel/deMaisoneuve” and “Howe/Davie” as reference points to measure distance from downtown. But even if we use your reference points, you did not live/stay in downtown areas in either Montreal or Vancouver.

While the statement, “The City of Toronto has the lowest allocation of park space per person in Canada,” is not just about downtown, it is about PARK SPACE. As I noted before, parks may or may not have playgrounds. The two map links below clearly show that you were within walking distance to multiple parks in both Montreal and Vancouver. Calling your statement “I find claims otherwise rather bizarre given how difficult it is to find a park in Vancouver!” ludicrous will be an understatement!

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Va...2!3m1!1s0x548672e6e1ebaf59:0xa60745a1936c30d6

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Mo...2!3m1!1s0x4cc910b652359ebf:0x367887cff90f2dd8

Did you compare the neighbourhoods in terms of relevant criteria such as proportion of families with children and income level (which could change over 30 years)?

Tourists/visitors lack the inside knowledge of a city compared to residents (e.g., you acknowledged you did not know if the nearby school playground was open to neighbourhood residents).

 

[freshcutgrass]

There’s nothing wrong in the Canadian Urban Institute comparison of density on a per hectare basis. If you are unable to acknowledge that you were wrong when you repeatedly claimed that downtown Vancouver could not have higher density than downtown Toronto, that’s your problem.

Except there is something wrong when the study you are cherry-picking from is a meta-analysis (a study of studies)...it isn't meant to make the direct comparisons you are because it is using various unrelated studies, with various criteria and definitions, rather than starting from scratch using exactly the same criteria for every city. It is also not using up to date numbers. Do you think downtown Vancouver has job densities even close to the Financial District...of course not. Do you think downtown Vancouver has residential densities like St Jamestown? Of course not. That little area you are calling downtown Vancouver is just too small to even make any meaningful comparisons to Downtown Toronto, which is a completely different league and context. But I mean, if the trolling makes you feel good...then go ahead.

The statement you misquoted (there appears to be a pattern here) actually says, “over the PAST 15 years.” Unlike Toronto, Vancouver ensured that its rising downtown population has access to quality neighborhood parks.

Nice try at deflecting...you claimed Downtown Vancouver has far more parks than Downtown Toronto, and has been adding more downtown parks than Toronto. I have no idea what facts you have to support either claim. You mentioned Vancouver has been building or in the process of building 8 new parks in the last 15 years (I fail to see how saying over a 15 year period is considered a misquote).

As to your first claim, I have a feeling that if you added up all the park space in Downtown Toronto, it may very well end up being as large as the entire area quoted as "downtown Vancouver". So I can hardly see how it would be possible to claim downtown Vancouver has "far more parks", unless downtown Vancouver is just all park. LOL

As for new parks built in downtown Toronto in the last 15 years...

1: Canada Square and Ontario Square
2: Town Hall Square
3: Canoe landing
4: Wellesley Magill Park
5: Regent Park
6: Wavedeck & Waters Edge Promenades
7: Sherbourne Common
8: Sugar Beach
9: HTO Park
10: Corktown Common
11: Underpass Park
12: Railway Lands Linear Park
13: June Callwood Park
14: Roundhouse Park
15: Liberty Village Park
16: Lisgar Park

The city has also recently added another 100,000 sqm of POPS to downtown.

And plenty more planned and in the design process as development continues.

Apart from parks, transportation is another area where Toronto could do better. Between 1996 and 2011, the number of vehicles entering downtown Vancouver decreased (20%) even though during the same time period, downtown Vancouver population (75%) and jobs (26%) increased.

Please give me the actual comparisons between Toronto and Vancouver...got some actual stats?
Off hand, I don't know if Toronto's had an increase or decrease in the numbers of cars entering downtown. Considering the vast difference between what is considered downtown Van and downtown TO, I don't even know how one would make a useful comparison.

I'm very happy that Vancouver has finally realized higher order transit...but Toronto has been already doing it for 60 years. And transit ridership has been rising steadily in Toronto, while I see Metrolink has posted a ridership decrease over last year. I don't see how that bodes well for reducing car travel.

Vancouver outspends Toronto, Montreal in transit, but lags in ridership - study
BY DON CAYO, VANCOUVER SUN SEPTEMBER 5, 2014


VANCOUVER - Vancouver has been outspending both Toronto and Montreal on rapid transit for the last two decades, yet it still trails both cities in infrastructure and ridership.

A new study by the Pembina Institute notes that Vancouver has built 44 kilometres of new rapid transit lines in the past 20 years, almost half of it — the Canada Line — in the last 10, while Toronto and Montreal have added very little.

This construction leaves the total length of Vancouver’s rapid transit lines at 68 kilometres. This compares with 83 for Toronto’s aging subway system, which added 18 kilometres in last 20 years, and 69 kilometres for Montreal, which added only five.

When ridership and access are considered, Vancouver is much further behind.

Metro Vancouver residents take an average of 52 rapid transit trips per year, behind not only Toronto with 133 and Montreal with 93, but also Ottawa with 104 and Calgary with 74.

And only 19 per cent of Metro residents live within walking distance of rapid transit, compared to 21 per cent in Calgary, 28 per cent in Ottawa, 34 per cent in Toronto and 37 per cent in Montreal.

The report acknowledges that Vancouver’s rapid transit challenge is magnified by the need to serve several low-density suburbs, and that express buses fill some of the gap.

The completion of the Evergreen Line now under construction to Coquitlam and scheduled to open in 2016 will change the Vancouver numbers, but all of the other cities surveyed have even more construction underway or planned, so Vancouver won’t catch up.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

 

[nfitz]

It’s not clear to me why you arbitrarily chose “Peel/deMaisoneuve” and “Howe/Davie” as reference points to measure distance from downtown. But even if we use your reference points, you did not live/stay in downtown areas in either Montreal or Vancouver.

Your quote wasn't about downtown. I arbitrarily chose a spot that was generally close to the centre of downtown. I sure one could debate it to death, but it's close enough.

I find claims otherwise rather bizarre given how difficult it is to find a park in Vancouver!” ludicrous will be an understatement!

I've been pretty clearly talking about playgrounds. Sure Vancouver has acres of forested parkland. Not very useful really unless you live right beside it ... and little in the way of play structures. I'm not sure how the use of words like 'ludicrous' promotes discussion, especially given how defensive you seem about this.

Did you compare the neighbourhoods in terms of relevant criteria such as proportion of families with children and income level (which could change over 30 years)?

Have you possibly considered that your overanalyzing my comments? My gosh ... it's a discussion board, not a challenge of a doctoral dissertation.

Tourists/visitors lack the inside knowledge of a city compared to residents (e.g., you acknowledged you did not know if the nearby school playground was open to neighbourhood residents).

Did I? I thought I was quite clear that there was very clear No Trespassing signs (and an odd lack of children).

I still submit that Vancouver seems very deficient in terms of public playgrounds compared to Toronto. Be it downtown or not. Ditto for Montreal.

I suppose you could refute this by providing a list of a dozen or so playgrounds in downtown Vancouver or Montreal with the distance from a reasonable centroid (your pick!) I bet you don't ...

 

[Ayan]

Except there is something wrong when the study you are cherry-picking from is a meta-analysis (a study of studies)...it isn't meant to make the direct comparisons you are because it is using various unrelated studies, with various criteria and definitions, rather than starting from scratch using exactly the same criteria for every city. It is also not using up to date numbers. Do you think downtown Vancouver has job densities even close to the Financial District...of course not. Do you think downtown Vancouver has residential densities like St Jamestown? Of course not. That little area you are calling downtown Vancouver is just too small to even make any meaningful comparisons to Downtown Toronto, which is a completely different league and context. But I mean, if the trolling makes you feel good...then go ahead.





Nice try at deflecting...you claimed Downtown Vancouver has far more parks than Downtown Toronto, and has been adding more downtown parks than Toronto. I have no idea what facts you have to support either claim. You mentioned Vancouver has been building or in the process of building 8 new parks in the last 15 years (I fail to see how saying over a 15 year period is considered a misquote).

As to your first claim, I have a feeling that if you added up all the park space in Downtown Toronto, it may very well end up being as large as the entire area quoted as "downtown Vancouver". So I can hardly see how it would be possible to claim downtown Vancouver has "far more parks", unless downtown Vancouver is just all park. LOL

As for new parks built in downtown Toronto in the last 15 years...

1: Canada Square and Ontario Square
2: Town Hall Square
3: Canoe landing
4: Wellesley Magill Park
5: Regent Park
6: Wavedeck & Waters Edge Promenades
7: Sherbourne Common
8: Sugar Beach
9: HTO Park
10: Corktown Common
11: Underpass Park
12: Railway Lands Linear Park
13: June Callwood Park
14: Roundhouse Park
15: Liberty Village Park
16: Lisgar Park

The city has also recently added another 100,000 sqm of POPS to downtown.

And plenty more planned and in the design process as development continues.




Please give me the actual comparisons between Toronto and Vancouver...got some actual stats?
Off hand, I don't know if Toronto's had an increase or decrease in the numbers of cars entering downtown. Considering the vast difference between what is considered downtown Van and downtown TO, I don't even know how one would make a useful comparison.

I'm very happy that Vancouver has finally realized higher order transit...but Toronto has been already doing it for 60 years. And transit ridership has been rising steadily in Toronto, while I see Metrolink has posted a ridership decrease over last year. I don't see how that bodes well for reducing car travel.

The Canadian Urban Institute study did not say that every inch of downtown Vancouver has higher density than every inch of downtown Toronto – it does not work that way. I am not sure if you understand the density per hectare concept. Anyway until you can provide actual numbers to demonstrate that you were not wrong when you repeatedly claimed that downtown Vancouver could not have higher density than downtown Toronto, I am happy with the Canadian Urban Institute study.

As I suggested several times already, a visit to downtown Vancouver will help adjust your narrow Toronto-centric views. You can start by visiting Stanley Park, a 1,001-acre park in the downtown peninsula that was named “top park in the entire world†earlier this year.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/vancouver-s-stanley-park-named-top-park-in-the-world-1.1874847

You completely missed the point about transit. Just as Vancouver ensured that its rising downtown population has access to quality neighbourhood parks, it managed to reduce incoming traffic to downtown despite significant increase in downtown population and jobs (by creating livable downtown communities where people live and work – something Toronto has started doing now except it's lagging in terms of livability). Aside from the obvious fact that Vancouver is a younger city where rapid transit was introduced in 1986 (more than 30 years after Toronto), Metro Vancouver residents could be taking relatively fewer rapid transit trips simply because they live and work in the same/nearby communities, eliminating the need for long commutes via rapid transit or other means. In contrast, almost half of Markham residents commute to Toronto for work for example.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Maps+reveal+Metro+Vancouver+commuting+habits/9360978/story.html

 

[Ayan]

Your quote wasn't about downtown. I arbitrarily chose a spot that was generally close to the centre of downtown. I sure one could debate it to death, but it's close enough.

I've been pretty clearly talking about playgrounds. Sure Vancouver has acres of forested parkland. Not very useful really unless you live right beside it ... and little in the way of play structures. I'm not sure how the use of words like 'ludicrous' promotes discussion, especially given how defensive you seem about this.

Have you possibly considered that your overanalyzing my comments? My gosh ... it's a discussion board, not a challenge of a doctoral dissertation.

Did I? I thought I was quite clear that there was very clear No Trespassing signs (and an odd lack of children).

I still submit that Vancouver seems very deficient in terms of public playgrounds compared to Toronto. Be it downtown or not. Ditto for Montreal.

I suppose you could refute this by providing a list of a dozen or so playgrounds in downtown Vancouver or Montreal with the distance from a reasonable centroid (your pick!) I bet you don't ...

“Generally close to the centre of downtown� In other words, reference points that would minimize the distance from downtown so that you could claim you were “close enough�

Why would you dispute the finding, “The City of Toronto has the lowest allocation of park space per person in Canada†by claiming that Toronto has more playgrounds? Parks and playgrounds are not the same! Any rational person (after looking at the map link I provided) would agree that your statement “I find claims otherwise rather bizarre given how difficult it is to find a park in Vancouver!†is ludicrous.

I did not overanalyze your comments. I simply pointed out the lacunas in your arguments. Your opinions re: playgrounds are not based on valid comparisons. You are entitled to your opinions but until you provide supporting details on valid comparisons, your opinions cannot be generalized to entire cities in order to arrive at definitive conclusions.

This is what you said re: trespassing, “I think there was a school a bit closer, but had ominous warning signs about trespassing. Perhaps I missed something?†Well you missed quite a few things including the fact that tourists/visitors lack the inside knowledge of a city compared to residents (e.g., the trespassing signs might have been old signs that were no longer valid/enforced).

 

[nfitz]

“Generally close to the centre of downtown”? In other words, reference points that would minimize the distance from downtown so that you could claim you were “close enough”?

What? No, I just quickly chose a point. Tell you what, if the exact point is so important, you pick the centre point in each of the 3 cities, and I'll go edit my post - even thought it makes no difference to my point.

Why would you dispute the finding, “The City of Toronto has the lowest allocation of park space per person in Canada” by claiming that Toronto has more playgrounds? Parks and playgrounds are not the same!

Because the playgrounds (the ones I refer to at least) are all in parks. Small parks. And really, that's what's more important to people - and why Toronto downtown is such a livable city.

Vancouver's numbers are grossly inflated by these truly massive forests that have little utility to most of the citizens on a day-to-day basis. Montreal has a mountain in the centre of the city. What's really important are parks within walking distance of where people live (and not just the lucky few that happen to live near Mont-Royal or Stanley Park).

Any rational person (after looking at the map link I provided) ...

Okay, I'm done here. I find the insults you throw around completely unnecessary. I think any rational people long since stopped reading this.

If you are so convinced that the park situation in Toronto is so frigging dire, why don't you move elsewhere? tourists/visitors lack the inside knowledge of a city compared to residents (e.g., the trespassing signs might have been old signs that were no longer valid/enforced).

... I asked a local, and they said that the local kids aren't allowed to play there. I just checked on streetview, and it's clear the gate is locked. Looking around carefully, I do now see a playground that's only 1 km away and closer. Still very not impressed in comparison to similar Toronto neighbourhoods.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Vancouver's numbers are grossly inflated by these truly massive forests that have little utility to most of the citizens on a day-to-day basis. Montreal has a mountain in the centre of the city. What's really important are parks within walking distance of where people live (and not just the lucky few that happen to live near Mont-Royal or Stanley Park).

As is clearly demonstrated by the map provided and the statistics, Toronto's 1500+ parks come in every size and type, including ones with nude beaches, to 24hr/365 days archery fields, to a single park large enough to hold all the park space in the entire City of Vancouver...3 times over.

And are well distributed throughout the entire city, so that most nabes don't just have once local park, but generally easy access to multiple parks.

Okay, I'm done here. I find the insults you throw around completely unnecessary.

I've already said he's just trolling with the usual anti-TO nonsense. He's over in another UofT thread posting how UBC campus is so much better.

We get these types now and then. You can ignore them or out them.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Sorry to interrupt, but does anyone know what the situation is with Donmount Park? I am adding/adjusting/fixing all of Toronto's parks in Google Maps, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what has happened with the redevelopment there. Is there such thing as Donmount Park (the actual parkland), or is it all Joel Weeks Parkette like on Google Maps now? I'd appreciate the feedback in correcting this.

 

[freshcutgrass]

The Canadian Urban Institute study did not say that every inch of downtown Vancouver has higher density than every inch of downtown Toronto – it does not work that way. I am not sure if you understand the density per hectare concept.

What you seem to be ignoring (on purpose I imagine), is the apples/oranges part of "your" comparison (because the study isn't making the claims...you are). If you only want to include the small business district area of downtown Van for jobs/ha numbers, then you would have to do the same for Toronto.

The study area used as downtown Toronto is bigger than what would generally be considered downtown. But I happen to agree with the map, so I don't really care.

The study area shown for Vancouver is not including the actual entire downtown Vancouver area at all, but a BIA called Downtown Vancouver, which is a smaller district inside downtown Vancouver. Did you conveniently miss that small detail...or were you hoping I was too stupid to notice?

The actual downtown Vancouver is not the 1.5 sq km area outlined in that study at all.
Downtown Vancouver is 3.75 sq km, and Downtown Eastside is 2.05 sq km, for a total of 5.8 sq km.
The entire downtown peninsula also includes West End's 2.04 sq km and Stanley Park's 4 sq km for a grand total of 11.84 sq kms

Have fun recalculating your numbers,.

 

[Ayan]

What? No, I just quickly chose a point. Tell you what, if the exact point is so important, you pick the centre point in each of the 3 cities, and I'll go edit my post - even thought it makes no difference to my point.

Because the playgrounds (the ones I refer to at least) are all in parks. Small parks. And really, that's what's more important to people - and why Toronto downtown is such a livable city.

Vancouver's numbers are grossly inflated by these truly massive forests that have little utility to most of the citizens on a day-to-day basis. Montreal has a mountain in the centre of the city. What's really important are parks within walking distance of where people live (and not just the lucky few that happen to live near Mont-Royal or Stanley Park).

Okay, I'm done here. I find the insults you throw around completely unnecessary. I think any rational people long since stopped reading this.

... I asked a local, and they said that the local kids aren't allowed to play there. I just checked on streetview, and it's clear the gate is locked. Looking around carefully, I do now see a playground that's only 1 km away and closer. Still very not impressed in comparison to similar Toronto neighbourhoods.

Now that you located a closer playground, it simply reinforces my point that the experience of living in a city is not the same as visiting a city. I encourage you not to form uninformed opinions about other cities, which, in turn, will ensure that you don't make ludicrous statements.

As for Toronto, your opinion of Toronto's parks contradicts the findings on page 1 as well as the chart on page 20 of this document that I posted before.

http://torontocentreplan.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/july18_11wellesley.pdf

 

[Ayan]

What you seem to be ignoring (on purpose I imagine), is the apples/oranges part of "your" comparison (because the study isn't making the claims...you are). If you only want to include the small business district area of downtown Van for jobs/ha numbers, then you would have to do the same for Toronto.

The study area used as downtown Toronto is bigger than what would generally be considered downtown. But I happen to agree with the map, so I don't really care.

The study area shown for Vancouver is not including the actual entire downtown Vancouver area at all, but a BIA called Downtown Vancouver, which is a smaller district inside downtown Vancouver. Did you conveniently miss that small detail...or were you hoping I was too stupid to notice?

The actual downtown Vancouver is not the 1.5 sq km area outlined in that study at all.
Downtown Vancouver is 3.75 sq km, and Downtown Eastside is 2.05 sq km, for a total of 5.8 sq km.
The entire downtown peninsula also includes West End's 2.04 sq km and Stanley Park's 4 sq km for a grand total of 11.84 sq kms

Have fun recalculating your numbers,.

You are welcome to contact Canadian Urban Institute and ask them to change the numbers as they ran afoul of your narrow Toronto-centric views.