Toronto Ookwemin Minising | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[UrbanFervour]

I think defining what is "pronounceable" to an English language speaker is a pretty challenging thing to define. English spelling is not consistent. And I think that "Anglicizing" something ... is the opposite point of Reconciliation. Also, who determines if an English speaker is "able to say that word"? There are many English speakers on this forum who say that they can pronounce the word as is.

All of this to say that while I think that the wider public should be able to pronounce new names, there is no clear criteria for what is or isn't "pronounceable." That means that particular criterion shouldn't have veto power over other criteria. As @Natika33 points out, I'm sure the people choosing the name put a lot of thought into the things that you seem to feel they have completely ignored.

Ookwemin Minising is a perfectly fine name- but to Northern Light's point, most people are going to garble and mispronounce it because it is not spelled phonetically in the Latin alphabet. It is very likely that most people will mispronounce it as "OOK-whemmin" .

If the Ojibway word is pronounced "Oh-KWAY-min", why not just spell it "Okwaymin", or something else that will prompt the largest number of people to actually pronounce the Ojibway word correctly?

And if the phonetic pronunciation or understanding of the name by non-indigenous people is a minor issue, or appealing to their understanding and/or pronunciation of the name is not important, then why even bother spelling in out in the Latin alphabet to begin with?

 

[rdaner]

^Oak Woman!

 

[old boy]

...I think this has always been about who is inconveniencing who with that name here. And that's pretty sad, IMO.

This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.

 

[old boy]

This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.

Murray Sinclair passed away this morning at age 73. A remarkable man who was most influential in delivering the Truth and Reconciliation document.

 

[evandyk]

This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.

I think it's a nice trend. We have plenty of Colonel Sam Smith, Garrison Common, Coronation, etc. Why not some variety?

 

[APTA-2048]

This is about foisting a name on the majority.

Did you also post this in every condo development thread on this forum.

 

[rdaner]

According to Chat GTP: 9,500 streets in the City of Toronto as well as 140 neighbourhoods of which I am guessing 95% have UK place names. I think that we have that part of our history covered.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.

A majority of what exactly?

 

[Traycer]

The traffic signals at Old Cherry St and Commissioners St were disabled early this morning, then removed at some point during the day. It was an entirely uncontrolled intersection as of around 5:30 pm earlier this evening. I assume a more permanent installation will be going in soon? I guess I'll find out tomorrow morning...

UPDATE (7:45 am)

No traffic lights, but new poles are being driven into the ground at the intersection.

 

[afransen]

I think it's a nice trend. We have plenty of Colonel Sam Smith, Garrison Common, Coronation, etc. Why not some variety?

I don't have a problem with first nations names, they are common enough. Ideally they are rendered phonetically intelligible to most locals. And expect shortening if your name is 6+ syllibles. Penetanguishene (5 syllables) is shortened by some locals to Penetang, In this case, I can see Okwemin sticking. We don't call Etobicoke wadoopikaang, which is what the name is based on.

 

[ear2ear]

After sitting with it for a couple daysI think that, despite the number of syllables, Ookwemin Minising rolls off the tongue better than, say, Liberty Village or Upper Beaches. It'll be fine.

 

[Mr.Tang]

It is also just the current zeitgeist to shoe-horn first nations considerations or a climate change angle onto as many debates as can be. I am not saying that is wrong necessarily (though the application at the degree can often be debated). In 20 years it will likely switch to something else.

 

[old boy]

Did you also post this in every condo development thread on this forum.

No, but I could.

 

[DSCToronto]

No, but I could.

Though there IS a difference between a name of a private development (like a condo building) and the name of a public place.

 

[APTA-2048]

Though there IS a difference between a name of a private development (like a condo building) and the name of a public place.

Not really in the context of the notion of a name being “foisted on the majority.”