Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[CanadianNational]

The reason that Ontario Place went downhill was the moving the old Exhibition Loop from south of the Coliseum to under the Gardiner Expressway.

People face this looking to the north of Princes' Blvd to the Exhibition Loop.
View attachment 472108

And this facing to the south towards Ontario Place.
View attachment 472109
From link.


Who wants to safari across that asphalt desert?

At least have a tree lined promenade and gardens, with benches and little mobile shops (not corporate chains or franchisees).

From link.

From link.

Instead of catering to the automobiles.

A well-defined, notable, greenery and amenity-laden processional or urbane aisle is a must-do. Not just for clarity on where and how to proceed once you get off the streetcar, but for ease in doing so and delight. Something that would act as a defacto gateway - and a useful addition to the Ex grounds in it's own right.

Someone get Claude Cormier on the phone - now!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Someone get Claude Cormier on the phone - now!

Though CCxA IMO is always best at small formal spaces - I think OP would be a good fit with MVVA or even West 8?

AoD

 

[CanadianNational]

Y'know? You're right!. West 8, DTAH and/or Michael Van Valkenberg should be first in line.

 

[CanadianNational]

P.S.
Since the Provincial Government just leased away almost a third of the site to a private company, I think Ontario place now should be expanded.
A new Island to the south or south-west could be a new start to recover equivalent lost green space. Some new attractions (not too huge, Lord!) could decorate it, but would be an opportunity to get imaginative - so long as the amount of land is replaced apart from them.
It could be an incredible spot for a new Planetarium.

Since Ford and the PC's have forced the removal of the land, it's only fair they reinstate it. I think it should be demanded, and is a worthwhile pursuit.
They OWE us.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

P.S.
Since the Provincial Government just leased away almost a third of the site to a private company, I think Ontario place now should be expanded.
A new Island to the south or south-west could be a new start to recover equivalent lost green space. Some new attractions (not too huge, Lord!) could decorate it, but would be an opportunity to get imaginative - so long as the amount of land is replaced apart from them.
It could be an incredible spot for a new Planetarium.

Since Ford and the PC's have forced the removal of the land, it's only fair they reinstate it. I think it should be demanded, and is a worthwhile pursuit.
They OWE us.

What I do want to see CCxA handle is a revitalization/reimagination of the Centre Island "Avenue of the Island" central axis. That kind of formalism and detailed attention to hardscape/water features very much play on the strengths of his firm.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

What I do want to see CCxA handle is a revitalization/reimagination of the Centre Island "Avenue of the Island" central axis. That kind of formalism and detailed attention to hardscape/water features very much play on the strengths of his firm.

AoD

Where did I see that idea before..........hmmm, LOL

Toronto - Toronto Island Park Master Plan | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

That amount of funding would be good for generating reports/plans, not much by the way of actual physical output. AoD That amount of funding will barely cover just considering hiring someone and as it rises slowly it will only pay for updating the last study. Sadly we are quite a few years...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[SubHuman]

The reason that Ontario Place went downhill was the moving the old Exhibition Loop from south of the Coliseum to under the Gardiner Expressway...
Who wants to safari across that asphalt desert?

I personally never understood the placement for the new subway station...
I felt a more ideal location as far as connectivity to Ontario Place and CNE venues would have been along Princess Blvd between BMO Field and the Enercare Centre.

A cable car could be fun, building on the whimsy that is (or was) Ontario Place. Lots of precedent around the world as urban cable cars are becoming increasingly common.

Cable cars from Ontario Place to the Exhibition GO/TTC station? With gondolas, like the Alpine Way? I suppose something connecting those places (and maybe to the King-Liberty GO station) would seem like a reasonable suggestion, although I have no idea how expensive or practical it would be.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9647332/ontario-line-exhibition-station-ontario-place/

... options include connections to the subway by “automated people mover, cable cars, or other modes.”

 

[3Dementia]

P.S.

A new Island to the south or south-west could be a new start to recover equivalent lost green space. Some new attractions (not too huge, Lord!) could decorate it, but would be an opportunity to get imaginative - so long as the amount of land is replaced apart from them.
It could be an incredible spot for a new Planetarium.

My therapist is addressing issues of an over-active/bruised ego triggered by recent Ontario Place Discussions.

1. When I heard Live Nation was planning a retractable/all season venue for Molson Stage (like I proposed 11 years ago)... I smiled and was even pleased.
2. When I heard Therme was proposing a new waterpark (like I proposed 11 years ago)... I frowned and grumbled.
3. Now you say "incredible spot for a new Planetarium (like I proposed.... blah blah blah)

The Planetarium is my tipping point/last straw. It only happens without legal intervention if someone also bellies up to the bar with $1 Billion to build my floating community ("Arcology Village").

I know, I know... there's no such thing as an original idea. Speed-dials therapist.

If you're interested, the whole wacky(?) idea is on this UT page (scroll down):
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/throw-back-of-ut-odds-and-ends-from-my-old-laptop.31325/

 

[adma]

I doubt it as I think that ship has fortunately sailed and it would be an odd choice for North America’s largest concentration of Muslims. Better the University of Guelph which is looking for a GTA campus.

Of course, I wasn't *advocating* it, just stating "Ford logic". And of course, according to a certain kind of "McVety logic" (backed up by DoFo in his search for amenable pools of Ford Nation voters to dogwhistle), the local cultural melting pot means that there might be a whole lot of "multiculti Christians" in the mix w/the Muslims, the sort of potential student body that makes for great recruitment photos: "Hey, we're not White Xtian Nationalist, we're open to everyone!"

 

[junctionist]

Ontario Place should definitely be expanded using fill to address the amount of public space being lost for the spa.

 

[adma]

On the one hand, this seems like precisely the sort of thing they would under-estimate. On the other hand, Ford got pretty burned on the MZO he did for the Foundry site in Toronto and I find it hard to iamgine the Infrastructre Ministry wouldn't have been aware of/considered the heritage issues. (As I understand it, unlike Ontario Place and the Foundry, the OSC is not designated. Nothing stopping Toronto Council from doing that now...)

I also saw that thing about the TRCA and the bridge. I would think, in the scheme of things, they would do everything int heir power to make clear that, "Hey, if we're the main hold-up with the bridge, let's figure that out ASAP,"" since they are very clearly more interested in retaining the OSC building than seeing it redeveloped. Maybe they needed this kick in the pants.

Ford is probably the sort who'd respond to being burned on the Foundry issue the same way he'd respond to being busted for hash dealing: figure out how to better hide the evidence so that he doesn't get busted again. But yeah, the morph from the initial misunderstanding is interesting: from "we'll tear it down for housing" t/w something like "we'll offer it to the city as a teardown".

But one other *really* vivid comparison point for Ford's logic came to mind, upon hearing of this news

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-jyoti-gondek-flames-csec-danielle-smith-csec-1.6821925

Because, as many of us know, Ford's basically a jock. His culture is "jock culture". His primary cultural-institution realm is that of major league stadiums and arenas. And as many of us know, the culture of modern-day major-league sports has been that of limited facility life. Once the facility is deemed dated and functionally obsolete, build something new and "state of the art" and tear the old one down, maybe spectacularly by way of controlled implosion where viable. It's the ultimate in "disposable building" culture. If you're 30 or 40, you're a wreck, an embarrassment. Heck, an ultimate case in point is Atlanta, where Atlanta Stadium, one of those "multi-purpose" 60s concrete donuts, lasted 30 years before being replaced by the Georgia Dome (for football) and the Olympic Stadium-turned-Turner Field (for baseball)--and then the Georgia Dome in its turn only lasted a quarter century before being replaced and imploded, and Turner Field served the Atlanta Braves for less than 20 years before they fled for the 'burbs (though it dodged the outright demolition bullet by being converted for Georgia State U).

So his natural default is to view the OSC (or, in the beginning, Ontario Place) the same way Calgarians view Saddledome. After 40 years, it's had its day, and is due for its inevitable replacement and demolition, such is the cycle of major-league-sports-facility life. And any serious rally to save Saddledome would be quixotic at best--not to mention that nobody would claim Saddledome to be "serious architecture" in the same way that OP or OSC are. It's *always* been an architectural cartoon: "build Cowtown an arena that looks like a saddle" was always a small-town kitsch idea where any actual architectural merit would come by happenstance. All Saddledome has going for it is familiarity and sentiment--so that it's meeting the premature fate of all such stadiums is kind of karmic as well as preordained. But Ford probably couldn't tell the difference--and he'd probably even prefer Saddledome in that it doesn't require pointy-headed "archsplaining" by "experts"...

 

[rbt]

So it's a 95 year lease - that's quite long for a for-profit entity:

Is it? Seems pretty standard (in Asia at least) for a government land-lease where a major structure will be built by a private 3rd party.

IIRC, Skydome's land lease is 99 years (runs until 2088).

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Is it? Seems pretty standard (in Asia at least) for a government land-lease where a major structure will be built by a private 3rd party.

IIRC, Skydome's land lease is 99 years (runs until 2088).

And not that it's anyone's idea of a favourable lease, the 407 lease is also 99 years.
Wanna guess about the lease Toronto gave the Province to use their lands for the Science Centre? 99 years.

I'm not saying I like the Ontario Place lease but for all the pearl clutching, I don't think the term is all that outrageous or unprecedented.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is it? Seems pretty standard (in Asia at least) for a government land-lease where a major structure will be built by a private 3rd party.

IIRC, Skydome's land lease is 99 years (runs until 2088).

SkyDome was not a private venture to start off with - it was controlled by the government and only sold to the private sector at a huge loss. A case study of what *not* to do - (also keep in mind the terms of the original lease included restrictions on how the land can be used, and even then there is agitation on redevelopment and how the current owners will be involved). The OSC 99 year-lease is also one to a non-profit organization.

I raise a counterpoint to this 95 year lease - which is the 50 + 50 renewal for the Union Station project.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Exhibition Park Place used to be the Garrison Grounds for the "New" Fort York (of which the Stanley Barracks only remain). The federal government allowed the city of Toronto to use the garrison grounds for the Toronto Industrial Exhibition.

From link.

Over the years, the garrison grounds were taken over.

Then came the asphalt and Gardiner Expressway...