Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Rainforest]

Before we have that, can we have councillor free council please? It probably takes less AI.

AoD

Actually that's very easy to achieve: online referendum on each and every issue that goes before the Council today.

It remains to be seen whether that results in better decision-making. Something tells me that the quality of decisions will be about same as today (not great), but a change in directions will occur even more frequently.

 

[nfitz]

I believe it was Peterson who cancelled the GO-ALRT project.

That article says it was Miller, based on the words of someone who would know - James Snow. And then at the end, says maybe Peterson.

It was reported on April 24, 1985 in the Toronto Star that they'd put it on hold until after the election. But when you read the details, it sounds like it was already a done deal to extend the GO service from Pickering to Oshawa instead, with Miller's Transport Minister saying that he'd been asked by Miller to review it. Clipping below.

Then on June 14th, the Star reported that Miller's Transport Minister's had made low-key announcement that it was cancelled. It was phrased "This system, called GO-ALRT, is now cancelled". Clipping below.

Two days later the Star quoted Peterson as calling the change "extremely bizarre" and accused the government of pulling the rug out from its own Urban Transportation Development Corp. I didn't clip this one - just a couple of paragraphs in the Metro column. In 1986 (after Peterson was Premier), the Star reported on the "decision by the short-lived government of Conservative premier Frank Miller to cancel a $280 million contract with UTDC to build an Oakville-to-Hamilton rapid transit line.

Now, Peterson certainly didn't revive it, when he became Premier. Could he have? Hard to say, depends what contracts were already made with CN. As much as we blame Harris (who cut all funding to GO, TTC, and had the under-construction Eglinton West subway filled in) neither Peterson or Rae were very impressive on the Transit front.

 

[Cobra]

If you count him as bad, Martin and Chretien must be deplorable.

They did what they had to do to balance the budget and eliminate deficits, but at a huge price. It was done on the back of the provinces who had no choice but to cut themselves. From 1960s to 1988, Montreal build subways and when the Liberals got in power in the 90s, nothing until in the 2000s when the Quebec Liberals were so starved for Laval votes, they extended the Orange over the blue line. I don't even think the Fed contributed and if they did, it really wasn't much.

 

[BurlOak]

They did what they had to do to balance the budget and eliminate deficits, but at a huge price. It was done on the back of the provinces who had no choice but to cut themselves. From 1960s to 1988, Montreal build subways and when the Liberals got in power in the 90s, nothing until in the 2000s when the Quebec Liberals were so starved for Laval votes, they extended the Orange over the blue line. I don't even think the Fed contributed and if they did, it really wasn't much.

Agreed. Harris Government was similar to Chretien Government. Cut transfers to lower level of government.
Either both did it because they had to balance budget, or both did it because they had wrong priorities.

 

[Hopkins123]

What does what happened 20 years ago have to do with expanding the subway network now? We can only kick the can so far down the road and blame the missteps of past governments for only so long. Justin Trudeau in his mandate has promised $137 billion over 10 years to expand infrastructure...

 

[TrickyRicky]

Driverless technology on something like the DRL is a no brainer; however, with all due respect to AI taking a look out the window at the weather today and briefly looking at those pathetic AI bus attempts linked above I donèt think driverless buses should be in the top 99 issues for the TTC to be concerned with.

 

[steveintoronto]

Harper gave more to Transit funding than any federal government before. If you count him as bad, Martin and Chretien must be deplorable.

http://rabble.ca/news/2012/11/harper-clashes-transit-climate-crisis-deepends

Harper *pledged* money if he was elected. Guess what? Pledging and actually spending are two quite different things.

 

[robmausser]

Sigh, that northern section of GO-ALRT is what always bums me out. What that would have done for transit in this city. It was basically the Mississauga Transitway, UPX, Finch LRT, Sheppard Subway and Scarborough RT in one.

 

[adrianaliu]

Sigh, that northern section of GO-ALRT is what always bums me out. What that would have done for transit in this city. It was basically the Mississauga Transitway, UPX, Finch LRT, Sheppard Subway and Scarborough RT in one.

i feel like the 407 transitway would do the same job better though, it could have branches from all over coming in to serve the corridor along the 403 and 407

 

[robmausser]

i feel like the 407 transitway would do the same job better though, it could have branches from all over coming in to serve the corridor along the 403 and 407

The 407 is MUCH further north than whats being depicted here.

running through North York Centre and Scarborough Centre, the ALRT is about level with Sheppard Ave and the Sheppard Subway

I think a feasible plan that would most mirror this project today, using plans already on the books, would be to convert the Missisauga Transitway to LRT from Square One to Pearson (buses could still run in the transitway as well, just leave it paved tracks like with the ROW streetcars) than make a connection north to the Finch LRT (this has already being looked into https://onecitytoronto.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/west.jpg) and then connect the Finch LRT to the Sheppard LRT. (either by exending the Finch LRT along the hydro corridor and then going south down Don Mills Road, OR by converting the Sheppard subway to LRT, either or, I dont care)

Then you could have one LRT running from Square One to Morningside (the east terminus of the Sheppard LRT)

 

[salsa]

I think a feasible plan that would most mirror this project today, using plans already on the books, would be to convert the Missisauga Transitway to LRT from Square One to Pearson (buses could still run in the transitway as well, just leave it paved tracks like with the ROW streetcars) than make a connection north to the Finch LRT (this has already being looked into https://onecitytoronto.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/west.jpg) and then connect the Finch LRT to the Sheppard LRT. (either by exending the Finch LRT along the hydro corridor and then going south down Don Mills Road, OR by converting the Sheppard subway to LRT, either or, I dont care)

Then you could have one LRT running from Square One to Morningside (the east terminus of the Sheppard LRT)

Such a long LRT line (parts of which also run on the streets) would be way too slow for long distance trips. It would take forever to go from end to end. It doesn't come close to replicating GO-ALRT.

 

[aquateam]

Ignore the talk about driverless buses (and cars), because they would never happen.

5 Cities With Driverless Public Buses On The Streets Right Now
​

Toronto councillor wants TTC to study driverless buses
Are driverless buses the future of the TTC?

See link.



So talk about driverless light rail on the surface likely will be impossible... not.
​

Honestly, I think that driverless streetcars in ROWs would be low-hanging fruit. Automating St. Clair and Spadina/Harbourfront would be much less complicated than automating mixed-traffic buses.

• Self-driving cars need to change lanes, reverse, turn, etc. The streetcars in ROWs only has one direction: forward.
• Self-driving cars have to deal with vehicles merging into them, merging into vehicles, etc. The streetcars only need to deal with obstructions in their path.
• Self-driving cars need to deal with every possible permutation of roadway configuration. The streetcars only have a fixed track of X kilometers on which they can move.

Driverless technology isn't an "if", it's a "when". The problem is much more tractable for special cases where you have a fixed guideway.

 

[robmausser]

Such a long LRT line (parts of which also run on the streets) would be way too slow for long distance trips. It would take forever to go from end to end. It doesn't come close to replicating GO-ALRT.

I tend to agree.

While I still think Finch and Sheppard LRT's should be connected, and the Finch LRT extended to the airport, perhaps a GO complimentary system like the ALRT could still be built as well, with in-frequent stops and grade separations, but at GO fare.

It could travel exclusively along the Finch Hydro corridor, or the 407 corridor, to the airport, and then in the Mississauga Transitway corridor.

 

[Anonymous2000]

Sigh, that northern section of GO-ALRT is what always bums me out. What that would have done for transit in this city. It was basically the Mississauga Transitway, UPX, Finch LRT, Sheppard Subway and Scarborough RT in one.

As much as I like this plan, there are some problems with it. How would you provide a connection to the Stouffville GO Line? Remember the hydro corridor is roughly equal distance between Steeles and Finch once in Scarborough. Also, an added station at Mc Nicoll (where the corridor parallels in Scarborough) it would have significantly slow down service on the Stouffville line.

 

[robmausser]

As much as I like this plan, there are some problems with it. How would you provide a connection to the Stouffville GO Line? Remember the hydro corridor is roughly equal distance between Steeles and Finch once in Scarborough. Also, an added station at Mc Nicoll (where the corridor parallels in Scarborough) it would have significantly slow down service on the Stouffville line.

Whats odd to me is that while the discussions were around using the Finch Hydro corridor, look where the line goes north/south. North York Centre? Scarborough Centre? Neither of these are anywhere close to the Finch Hydro Corridor. They are much further south.