Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Hopkins123]

Attended the Lakeshore Collegiate public meeting tonight. A few things were made clear that narrowed the scope of the discussion: The Smart Trac options are either C or D. There will NOT be a Spadina Smart Trac station. There are no near future plans to expand the Relief Line west of University, though a Spadina station is a possibility with a fight. The Relief Line will very likely be a subway, not an LRT. It's more likely that there will be stations at Osgoode and Queen than at City Hall. Streetcar service will likely continue on Queen after the DRL is built. The Relief Line choices are B1, with or without a Unilever stop. The likely location of the Liberty Village stop is the north side of King. There's a faint possibility of this stop being located at Queen and Dufferin, but there won't be stops in both locations. The subway to STC is going to happen. There won't be a Smart Spur from Ellesmere to STC. Basically transit will be overbuilt in Scarborough, underbuilt in the core. Adding a Go station at Park Lawn is not for sure. I really felt that there was little sense of the value of the Relief Line among the technocrats apart from the utility of removing riders from the Yonge line.

Thanks for letting us know. Did you get an idea where the DRL stops are going to be located east of Yonge? How many? Still hoping they'll do the right thing and include a Parliament station. A Carlaw/Queen stop would be nice too.

 

[interchange42]

Station talk on the Relief Line will come in the next round of public consultations, now to come in May.

42

 

[1overcosc]

Polls and the imminent threat of the PCs cancelling projects wouldn't even matter if the Liberals would just get their act together and get these projects shovel-ready prior to 2018.

I don't think you have to worry about this one. A good number of things will be well on their way in 2018, such as the Finch LRT and much of RER, so they'll be safe.

In any case, the only way the PCs are getting in power is if they moderate and make themselves more appealing to urban voters, which in and of itself means being more transit friendly, so relax all

 

[salsa]

There will NOT be a Spadina Smart Track station.

Because it's not needed, or because it's technically difficult to build?

The likely location of the Liberty Village stop is the north side of King. There's a faint possibility of this stop being located at Queen and Dufferin, but there won't be stops in both locations.

If the relief line will be going under Queen, then the Liberty Village station should be at Queen & Dufferin. This is just another reason why I am so annoyed that the RL planning work is only being done on the Osgoode-Pape segment instead of the whole thing. Otherwise a mistake such as putting a new GO station in the wrong place would not happen.

 

[Euphoria]

They seemed open to adding a DRL stop east of Queen and Broadview. There will likely be a station at Queen and Sumach. I advocated for an ST station at Parliament or Cherry given the development in the area and the future development in the Portlands. They seemed receptive to the idea, but the station would likely be further east, just before the Don. I said I thought there would be redundancy having both a DRL Unilever station and an ST Unilever station. I said as much about having a subway to STC running alongside Smart Trac. I might as well have spoken a foreign language. Some of these station locations seem politically motivated or based on very uncertain ridership projections.

 

[Euphoria]

Yes, you're right. An ST stop at Spadina can't be built for technical reasons. It would be on the Barrie line. There was also little description of the technical challenges of accommodating additional trains at Union. ST will be a shadow of the original plan.

 

[rbt]

Polls and the imminent threat of the PCs cancelling projects wouldn't even matter if the Liberals would just get their act together and get these projects shovel-ready prior to 2018.

Too late for most projects already. Only ones that'll be locked-up before an election have a completed EA or are simple. Safe projects include Lake Shore electrification test segment, Finch LRT, Niagara GO, and probably Hurontario LRT. I'd add Hamilton LRT to the list but I'm not at all sure council there is actually on-board yet.

It takes IO 18 months just to do engineering and tender any complex project (Eglinton LRT, DRL, etc.). Design-Built-Maintain tenders, have the benefit of locking everything in and being hard to cancel also has the unfortunate side-effect of locking everything in; meaning you need to know the smallest finishing details before even the most basic work can begin.

TTC's tendering method allows for a much faster start as they can design tunnels while utilities are being moved, and do rough design of the stations while tunnels are being built, and finished design of stations while stations are being excavated.

Of course, as we've seen with Spadina, TTC's method doesn't have a known fixed price.

 

[crs1026]

In any case, the only way the PCs are getting in power is if they moderate and make themselves more appealing to urban voters, which in and of itself means being more transit friendly, so relax all

This is what cost the PC's last time - the emphasis on 'firing' civil servants, teachers and nurses, instead of just talking about the affordability of the public sector. They made it seem that it wouldn't be worth doing unless some blood got spilled. Almost every Ontario family has a teacher, or nurse, or civil servant. It was a recipe for fear. In contrast, Wynne came across as the more empathic and moderate candidate.

Wynne has pretty much blown her cover on that front, with her cynical handling of union settlements, her willingness to sweep the gas plant scandal under the carpet, and a new record for photo ops per actual accomplishment ratio. Not to mention a very self serving attitude to the public purse (the projects may be prudent, but the explanation of where the money is coming from is pure fog).

If the PC's can't find a platform and style that outsells Wynne, they really are incompetent.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Wynne has pretty much blown her cover on that front, with her cynical handling of union settlements, her willingness to sweep the gas plant scandal under the carpet, and a new record for photo ops per actual accomplishment ratio. Not to mention a very self serving attitude to the public purse (the projects may be prudent, but the explanation of where the money is coming from is pure fog).

If the PC's can't find a platform and style that outsells Wynne, they really are incompetent.

- Paul

The weird thing is what's the method behind that "madness" - of all the positions she can take, she tend to take the most intransigent, nerve-raising ones with high negative impressions. You got to wonder what's her game plan behind all that.

AoD

 

[Palma]

And a relief line to Sheppard will also relieve the Sheppard Line!!

you are joking right? Sheppard needs relief?

 

[Palma]

I don't see why a western extension cannot occur before an extension to Sheppard - the immediate need to provide relief to Yonge will be served simply by having the line built - I don't see the need to that northward occur right away, and if having a western extension (which will be well used) helps to shore up political support, it would be a deal well worth it.

The best scenario would be making a case for extensions to occur at the same time.

AoD

I have heard Byford and just recently Jennifer Keeswait tweeted about a subway down Dufferin. What about yonge going west on Finch to connect to Dufferin and Finch and then turning to run down Dufferin to Bloor or points beyond? . Oh I forgot - there is the spadina extension so doubtful Yonge line turn west and be connected to perhaps a potential future Dufferin line

 

[Cobra]

you are joking right? Sheppard needs relief?

Sheppard needs help

Maybe merging it with the relief line could be the birth of a circle line for Toronto like in London? (which is quite convenient)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I have heard Byford and just recently Jennifer Keeswait tweeted about a subway down Dufferin. What about yonge going west on Finch to connect to Dufferin and Finch and then turning to run down Dufferin to Bloor or points beyond? . Oh I forgot - there is the spadina extension so doubtful Yonge line turn west and be connected to perhaps a potential future Dufferin line

That's curious. Where did you see this?

That's such a coincidence because I was just doing some research on the potential of of a University Relief Line/Western relief line.
Essentially, preliminary indications are that University Line will go over capacity in 15 to 25 years. The relief line to Dundas west was expected to provide only 4,000 pphpd of University Line relief, which would mean that any Relief Line West would have to go to at least Eglinton West and Jane to provide substantial long term Univesity Line relief.

 

[Cobra]

That's curious. Where did you see this?

That's such a coincidence because I was just doing some research on the potential of of a University Relief Line/Western relief line.
Essentially, preliminary indications are that University Line will go over capacity in 15 to 25 years. The relief line to Dundas west was expected to provide only 4,000 pphpd of University Line relief, which would mean that any Relief Line West would have to go to at least Eglinton West and Jane to provide substantial long term Univesity Line relief.

So a Circle Line (Queen-Dufferin-Sheppard-Don Mills)?

That Spanish solution at Sheppard-Yonge would finally be useful

 

[Forgotten]

Attended the Lakeshore Collegiate public meeting tonight. A few things were made clear that narrowed the scope of the discussion: The Smart Trac options are either C or D. There will NOT be a Spadina Smart Trac station. There are no near future plans to expand the Relief Line west of University, though a Spadina station is a possibility with a fight. The Relief Line will very likely be a subway, not an LRT. It's more likely that there will be stations at Osgoode and Queen than at City Hall. Streetcar service will likely continue on Queen after the DRL is built. The Relief Line choices are B1, with or without a Unilever stop. The likely location of the Liberty Village stop is the north side of King. There's a faint possibility of this stop being located at Queen and Dufferin, but there won't be stops in both locations. The subway to STC is going to happen. There won't be a Smart Spur from Ellesmere to STC. Basically transit will be overbuilt in Scarborough, underbuilt in the core. Adding a Go station at Park Lawn is not for sure. I really felt that there was little sense of the value of the Relief Line among the technocrats apart from the utility of removing riders from the Yonge line.

I don't know how anybody can read that and this and not come to the conclusion that both Tory and Keesmatt need to be fired for trying to pawn off these blatant lies on the voters.