Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

Since the Osgoode-Exhibition(ish) portion of this line was left out of scope from previous City planning for the Relief Line, it is quite appropriate for Ontario to begin some sort of catchup procurement to bring the EA and engineering work to the same completion as the centre and north segments of the line. This can be done without undoing or making redundant the central portion of the line. The sooner this happens, the sooner we get to the can’t back away point, so I’m all for this to happen.

I don’t believe that today’s announcement will be a more global development, although it could be the kickoff to procurement.... Ford will want to be front and center for the main milestones.

I also don’t believe that this project will proceed without any nod towards an EA.... the risks of court challenge will be too great. Route selection will pit individual developers against each other, so the PC’s will want that to happen through an “independent” (gag) evaluation.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I also don’t believe that this project will proceed without any nod towards an EA.... the risks of court challenge will be too great.
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OMG...I was steering clear of further comment on this, I have absolutely no faith in this regime making their fantasies real, but you just hit on something that completely fits their agenda and modus operandi: "proceed without any nod towards an EA". How would they view the EAA? As an impediment to development in their own image.

Perhaps I'm overly attuned to having just read this, which at first glance, and in and of itself is not that great a thing (but incredibly short-sighted to be sure), but as part of the 'big picture', massive:

Ford government slashes funding to programs aimed at fighting spread of invasive species
https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...d-at-fighting-spread-of-invasive-species.html

Could the
Environmental Assessment Act, RSO 1990, c. E.18 - Ontario.ca
be next? What better place for them to announce with spin on a fantasy that's been promoted with absolutely no sign or detail of fact so far. Use the fantasy for all its worth as a vehicle to slash and bash...
crs1026 said:
the risks of court challenge will be too great.
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That doesn't seem to stop their Beer Store storming or cancellation of other previous regime enactments:
Cancellation of German-owned Ontario wind project prompts warning ...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../article-cancellation-of-german-owned-ontario-wi...
Jul 23, 2018 - Ontario's move to cancel the contract of a German-owned wind energy project represents a black mark for the province in the eyes of foreign investors, Berlin's ambassador to Canada, Sabine Sparwasser, warned Monday.
[...]
The ambassador’s warning was echoed by John Manley, president of the Business Council of Canada, which represents chief executive officers of the country’s largest firms.
[...]
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mdrejhon said:
Seeing the EA act ripped up.... hmm.

A topic deserving its own separate, long, sprawling, polluted forum discussion thread unto itself.
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Haven't had time to dig on this, but there might be federal 'backstops' to minimal environmental regs. A quick peruse is not encouraging: https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201386E

The term the OntCons would use is "streamline" as a catch phrase to encompass slash and burn. They wouldn't eliminate it, but do as they have with planning and zoning regs, pare them back to minimum where they can.

In the event, I gather that the announcement at Exhibition Station will be about something else, but the more I think about it, the strawman Ontario Line, since it lacks any detail what-so-ever as being real, is to be a vehicle to justify changes to Ont environmental regs.
 
mdrejhon said:
Seeing the EA act ripped up.... hmm.

A topic deserving its own separate, long, sprawling, polluted forum discussion thread unto itself.
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That’s why I chose my words carefully ie “any nod towards”..... the EA process has some of its roots in Supreme Court rulings, so can’t be eliminated altogether (in my non-lawyer view).... but it will eventually be a target for this government.

I would argue that the EA process is not necessarily perfect - nor is the Planning Act - and maybe some parts ought to be revisited.... but Ford is more of a scorched-earth kinda premier. The problem this creates is the cycle time of court ruling, getting told to go back and do more consultation, etc. That wipes out any promised improvement in getting things done. Doing it right the first time will be against the grain for this guy. Even if one is in favour of reform, watching this project get delayed while everyone fights over the law is not in our collective best interests.

- Paul
 
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Reecemartin said:
Also wanna point out that the station has been 100% confirmed to be at Ex not OP.
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100% confirmed by who? The drawings that the Ontario government dropped earlier this week showed the station south of BMO Field ... which I suppose is on the EX, but on the edge the walkway over Lakeshore to Ontario Place - and not an unreasonable walk - though completely unsuitable for regular GO to Ontario line transfers.

If the only station is at the existing Exhibition station, that would be all but unusable for Ontario Place - we've known that for years, as that's never worked well before ... so why would it work well in the future! That's about 700 metres as-the-crown flies from the existing station, to the closest bridge at the entrance to Ontario Place - but there's BMO Field in the middle - Google says it's a 900 metre walk.

There must be more to this than simply putting a station at the current GO Exhibition location.I can't conceive even the current conservative government telling such a massive and blatant lie!
 
crs1026 said:
That’s why I chose my words carefully ie “any nod towards”..... the EA process has some of its roots in Supreme Court rulings, so can’t be eliminated altogether (in my non-lawyer view).... but it will eventually be a target for this government.

I would argue that the EA process is not necessarily perfect - nor is the Planning Act - and maybe some parts ought to be revisited.... but Ford is more of a scorched-earth kinda premier. The problem this creates is the cycle time of court ruling, getting told to go back and do more consultation, etc. That wipes out any promised improvement in getting things done. Doing it right the first time will be against the grain for this guy. Even if one is in favour of reform, watching this project get delayed while everyone fights over the law is not in our collective best interests.

- Paul
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There are 2 ways under the Ontario EA rules that they can speed up the process (without a change in legislation):

1. Under paragraph 3.2(1)(a) the government can declare that this Act does not apply (note most provinces have this ability in their respective legislation)
2. The deadlines and many of the criteria are set via Regulation, not legislation. They can propose new Regs, publish them in the Ontario Gazette and then they become valid. This could shorten the consults and/or decrease the studies.

Note that there has been precedence to waive various large scale programs. McGuinty did this with the Integrated Power System. But I'm sure the Lib supporters at City Hall will easily forget this when they scream murder
 
Edward Skira said:
Take it as you wish but this press conference is happening at the Exhibition Go Station. I believe that's where the station will be.
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So this turned out to be nothing to do with Ontario Place or the Ontario Line. And nothing to do with Exhibition in particular - they could have used any GO station for this announcement - I guess they wanted something close to downtown that wasn't Union.

Here's the press release - it's GO Expansion On-Corridor contract announcement of the bidders list - here's the project page.

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca
 
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nfitz said:
So this turned out to be nothing to do with Ontario Place or the Ontario Line. And nothing to do with Exhibition in particular - they could have used any GO station for this announcement - I guess they wanted something close to downtown that wasn't Union.

Here's the press release - it's GO Expansion On-Corridor contract announcement of the bidders list - here's the project page.

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca
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Wasn't this announced under the previous government?
 
raptor said:
RFQ - yes, RFP - no
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According to the project website (https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/RER-GO-Regional-Express-Rail-Corridor/) the RFQ was in April 2018. Also this is the short-list of bidders not the RFQ - which is a separate announcement, which could be weeks or months away. At a bare minimum there's 5 announcements on each project before construction starts (RFQ, bidders lists, RFP, winning bidder, and construction). Sometimes there's more (such as before the RFQ, or when the contract is finalized, but before construction starts).

With at least 4 major projects currently being procured along Lakeshore (this and the Lakeshore West Corridor Infrastructure Improvements, Lakeshore East, West Corridor Expansion Project, and Lakeshore East, Central Corridor Expansion Project) that could be up to 20 announcements without any actual work!

And no guarantee they will proceed quckly. The announced the bidders list for the Lakeshore East, West Corridor Expansion Project (4th track from Don to Scarborough and associated works) about 6 months ago, and still haven't issued the RFP! if IO's website is correct!

188486
 
nfitz said:
According to the project website (https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/RER-GO-Regional-Express-Rail-Corridor/) the RFQ was in April 2018. Also this is the short-list of bidders not the RFQ - which is a separate announcement, which could be weeks or months away. At a bare minimum there's 5 announcements on each project before construction starts (RFQ, bidders lists, RFP, winning bidder, and construction). Sometimes there's more (such as before the RFQ, or when the contract is finalized, but before construction starts).

With at least 4 major projects currently being procured along Lakeshore (this and the Lakeshore West Corridor Infrastructure Improvements, Lakeshore East, West Corridor Expansion Project, and Lakeshore East, Central Corridor Expansion Project) that could be up to 20 announcements without any actual work!

And no guarantee they will proceed quickly. The announced the bidders list for the Lakeshore East, West Corridor Expansion Project (4th track from Don to Scarborough and associated works) about 6 months ago, and still haven't issued the RFP! if IO's website is correct!

View attachment 188486
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Not to go off topic but hasn't @crs1026 mentioned in the GO Construction thread that some of that extra track noted above isn't moving ahead at this time?
 
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