Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[BurlOak]

That's a City map, and doesn't line up with what the Prov is promising.

No - that's an altered City Map, guessing at what the Province is proposing.

 

[H4F33Z]

Not taking the car at this point; moving into a downtown condo.

It was kind of a rhetorical statement but ok.

 

[muller877]

That's a City map, and doesn't line up with what the Prov is promising. Also if we're to elevate over Overlea for reasons of cost savings and built surroundings, that should be doubly true for the entirety of Eglinton West. It's like the perfect locale. But they're not proposing that.

Please read the Budget. Underground from Royal York to Martin Grove. (and of course it will also have to go under Weston due to current placement of the station & the hill)

 

[Edward Skira]

No - that's an altered City Map, guessing at what the Province is proposing.

Frankly considering where this line is going (the airport) I think completely separated from the cars is totally the way to go. Under or over. Will become a major route I'd imagine over time.

 

[robmausser]

Frankly considering where this line is going (the airport) I think completely separated from the cars is totally the way to go. Under or over. Will become a major route I'd imagine over time.

Or beside. The part from Scarlet to Royal York and again from martin grove to renforth gateway have next to no major intersections. If the LRT is in a ROW beside the road there will be very little interference from cars.

 

[44 North]

Please read the Budget. Underground from Royal York to Martin Grove. (and of course it will also have to go under Weston due to current placement of the station & the hill)

So why haven't they proposed continuing the bridge structure all the way to Martin Grove, much in the same way you assert is their duty to the electorate for any RL through East York? If they are in fact keen on cost-saving measures and quickly snuffing local input, open-air along almost the entirety of Eglinton West should be the A1 go-to. Royal York to Martin Grove is the sweetest corridor in the city for it, yet they're promising underground. Guess I'm more curious why you're not expressing the same sentiment as you did about Overlea on the previous page.

Or beside. The part from Scarlet to Royal York and again from martin grove to renforth gateway have next to no major intersections. If the LRT is in a ROW beside the road there will be very little interference from cars.

Tho I'm a supporter of an elevated solution, feel this or in median makes most sense. It's using low floor vehicles designed for roadway operation, and Eglinton East won't be seeing the same full grade grade separation treatment. The time for looking at a light subway system across Eglinton to the airport has quite literally past us. May as well stick with the original plan with a couple added grade separations in the west. Which is still really good.

 

[jzair]

If they are in fact keen on cost-saving measures and quickly snuffing local input, open-air along almost the entirety of Eglinton West should be the A1 go-to.

Yes! There can also be more benefits of a continuous elevated/bridge structure as the vehicles experiences less slopes/inclines. At the end of the day, any form of grade separation that avoids mixing these trains with car/human traffic is palatable to the riders.

 

[muller877]

So why haven't they proposed continuing the bridge structure all the way to Martin Grove, much in the same way you assert is their duty to the electorate for any RL through East York? If they are in fact keen on cost-saving measures and quickly snuffing local input, open-air along almost the entirety of Eglinton West should be the A1 go-to. Royal York to Martin Grove is the sweetest corridor in the city for it, yet they're promising underground. Guess I'm more curious why you're not expressing the same sentiment as you did about Overlea on the previous page.

How would you propose to go from Overlea to Don Mills? And avoid a 90 degree slow-moving turn?
Plus over West Don? (or else there is a deep station which adds a lot of cost)

It's all about topography. If you can do a cut and cover (and not deep stations) tunneling costs about 1/2 of what is does with a TBM. But I don't think you can tunnel but still have a bridge across the West Don above the 100 year flood mark.

I heard some basic numbers once...they are approx accurate:
if it's $1 for a surface LRT
$2 for above grade
$4 for cut & cover
$8 for TBM
[including stations]

....and hence why you want to avoid the latter as much as possible

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is the "new technology" that Doug Ford got sold by "someone for a bill of goods” this year, actually the "monorail" he wanted for the waterfront back in 2011? See link. Just needs a ferris wheel at Ontario Place.

 

[44 North]

How would you propose to go from Overlea to Don Mills? And avoid a 90 degree slow-moving turn?
Plus over West Don? (or else there is a deep station which adds a lot of cost)

It's all about topography. If you can do a cut and cover (and not deep stations) tunneling costs about 1/2 of what is does with a TBM. But I don't think you can tunnel but still have a bridge across the West Don above the 100 year flood mark.

I heard some basic numbers once...they are approx accurate:
if it's $1 for a surface LRT
$2 for above grade
$4 for cut & cover
$8 for TBM
[including stations]

....and hence why you want to avoid the latter as much as possible

As an optimal case I'd always imagined a bridge paralleling to the west of Leaside bridge, cut cover through Thorncliffe following Overlea + subgrade station, then another bridge over ET Seton. Maybe mine a bit below TDSB in an arc to line up with DM while offering a station in Flemingdon (if it were to be greenlit). And this would interchange with Crosstown below grade. North of Don Mills elevated would be decent.

With QP and this shrouded Metrolinx mystery I don't think they're going to build anything to begin with. If you're correct that ignoring locals and saving money is the government's mandate, building nothing is a winner. And if they do manage to build something I think we'd be lucky to get any stations between Line 2 and Science Ctr.

 

[Leo_Chan]

As an optimal case I'd always imagined a bridge paralleling to the west of Leaside bridge, cut cover through Thorncliffe following Overlea + subgrade station, then another bridge over ET Seton. Maybe mine a bit below TDSB in an arc to line up with DM while offering a station in Flemingdon (if it were to be greenlit). And this would interchange with Crosstown below grade. North of Don Mills elevated would be decent.

With QP and this shrouded Metrolinx mystery I don't think they're going to build anything to begin with. If you're correct that ignoring locals and saving money is the government's mandate, building nothing is a winner. And if they do manage to build something I think we'd be lucky to get any stations between Line 2 and Science Ctr.

I’d be ironic if they only build 1 station between Line 2 and Line 5 is the most expensive station ever on the Midtown’s GO corridor as an interchange with no Midtown service ever to happen. I’d be like Downsview Park Station but no Barrie Line.

 

[steveintoronto]

With QP and this shrouded Metrolinx mystery I don't think they're going to build anything to begin with.

It's a given that they're not. It will be a *Private Entity* that does. The question is whether an offer has already been made? I don't think Ford has anything to do with it, frankly. He barely has a clue how to do his zipper up, let alone talk about something like this. What has become apparent is that he was at Metrolinx, saw a proposal on their table, and left. All we're getting are his impressions of what it, or them, is/are. He couldn't get Thomas the Tank Engine colour right, let alone the concept. He'd double over with his jaw dropping for a Hornby Dublo...mistaking that for an instruction to "Horny Double-over".

If you're correct that ignoring locals and saving money is the government's mandate, building nothing is a winner.

I thoroughly agree, because once started, it will be yet one more project this city/region will be locked into. Either do it right, or don't do it, because the Market will, and chances are a consortium will look at it, and realize: "Why cheap out on this? If we double the estimated cost, and lease out to GO RER and VIA HFR too, we can have a much more stable rate of return and willing shareholders on board. We might even decide to run it ourselves in an interoperational agreement with Metrolinx and/or QP." (Metrolinx have not been stated to be the operators! Curious by omission, let alone that other than Verster's mistaken comments on it, Metrolinx has officially stated nothing at all

I’d be ironic if they only build 1 station between Line 2 and Line 5 is the most expensive station ever on the Midtown’s GO corridor as an interchange with no Midtown service ever to happen. I’d be like Downsview Park Station but no Barrie Line.

One of the giveaways that the F Bros (Ford, Fedeli) don't know what's going on is the allowing the presumption of stations hither-thither. Ontario Place, yada, yada. Private Enterprise will approach this pragmatically, and say outright *NO* to some things, like too few or too many stations...or build it to do both, with a by-pass centre track on buried stations (the station box will be wide enough to permit it). If this is built standard gauge track, and every indication is it will be, then it can share with RER and HFR both for higher speed regional and intercity as well as local. This isn't some 'fantasy', it's already done in world class cities. And that's where the expertise will come from.

The last, the *very last* people I'd want to be behind this are the F Bros.

 

[44 North]

One of the giveaways that the F Bros (Ford, Fedeli) don't know what's going on is the allowing the presumption of stations hither-thither. Ontario Place, yada, yada. Private Enterprise will approach this pragmatically, and say outright *NO* to some things, like too few or too many stations...or build it to do both, with a by-pass centre track on buried stations (the station box will be wide enough to permit it). If this is built standard gauge track, and every indication is it will be, then it can share with RER and HFR both for higher speed regional and intercity as well as local. This isn't some 'fantasy', it's already done in world class cities. And that's where the expertise will come from.

The last, the *very last* people I'd want to be behind this are the F Bros.

Right now I have a fiver on some kind of deal for Bombardier's Innovia 300 metro. Not saying the ink is drying, but do see a distinct possibility for their "Ontario Line" mummery. Maybe it could be LIM (which would tie into Yurek's remark about magnetic stuff), but possibly 3rd rail or panto using said vehicles. Also recall how McGuinty foolishly placed an excessively large order for LFLRVs, an order too big they couldn't build enough lines for them. Part of that seemed to be a sordid top-down means to prop up Ontario manufacturing. Feel like this could be the same thing. Creating jobs in Millhaven. Also with QP wanting to bring SSE back to the drawing board this could allow them to use the same vehicles to upgrade Line 3 instead.

Manufacturing locally, reviving a previous PC party's original creation, the guy who marketed Innovia for UTDC in the 80s is working for QP/Metrolinx again. It's all full circle. Just a theory, but it does make some sense.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ BBD have a huge problem besides reliability: Lack of cash. Their Transport Division is on a nose dive yet again. The key to the Ontario Line happening is Private Enterprise. Siemens are sitting on a massive amount of cash. Part of their business is financing. And some competitors are sitting on investment cash too.

For BBD to be part of a consortium, they're going to have to have skin in the game. Quick Google shows Alstom looking pretty good as per stock value, don't know what their cash position is, but they look healthy right now:
https://simplywall.st/stocks/fr/capital-goods/epa-alo/alstom-shares

The bottom line for the Ontario Line is that QP is going to put dick into this, literally and figuratively. Meantime, Siemens won't work with the F Bombs directly because of this:

Cancellation of German-owned Ontario wind project prompts warning from Berlin

SHAWN MCCARTHYGLOBAL ENERGY REPORTER
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED JULY 23, 2018 UPDATED JULY 24, 2018

Ontario’s move to cancel the contract of a German-owned wind energy project represents a black mark for the province in the eyes of foreign investors, Berlin’s ambassador to Canada, Sabine Sparwasser, warned Monday.

The German government and multinational companies have taken note of Premier Doug Ford’s decision to pull the plug on wpd AG’s White Pines wind project in Prince Edward County, as well as the bill now before the legislature that will allow the province to set limits on what compensation is provided, Ms. Sparwasser said in a telephone interview.

“Obviously, every incoming government has the right to change policy direction,” she said. “But to have a unilateral cancellation pushed through by law that way is unsettling for the company, but is also something that will unsettle other potential investors." [...]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...ed-ontario-wind-project-prompts-warning-from/

NatPost even gets this one:

John Ivison: Wind turbine decision says Doug Ford's Ontario is closed for business
Unfortunately, governments can also make bone-headed, ideological decisions that close businesses, kill jobs and drive away investment — which is what Ford is doing

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jo...ays-doug-fords-ontario-is-closed-for-business

Siemens will participate, if there's someone with big-boy pants on to do it with. And that's either the InfraBank and/or the Feds directly. I'm amazed the Ford Motor Company hasn't slapped Ford with a Cease and Desist Order to stop using the name...

 

[micheal_can]

Right now I have a fiver on some kind of deal for Bombardier's Innovia 300 metro. Not saying the ink is drying, but do see a distinct possibility for their "Ontario Line" mummery. Maybe it could be LIM (which would tie into Yurek's remark about magnetic stuff), but possibly 3rd rail or panto using said vehicles. Also recall how McGuinty foolishly placed an excessively large order for LFLRVs, an order too big they couldn't build enough lines for them. Part of that seemed to be a sordid top-down means to prop up Ontario manufacturing. Feel like this could be the same thing. Creating jobs in Millhaven. Also with QP wanting to bring SSE back to the drawing board this could allow them to use the same vehicles to upgrade Line 3 instead.

Manufacturing locally, reviving a previous PC party's original creation, the guy who marketed Innovia for UTDC in the 80s is working for QP/Metrolinx again. It's all full circle. Just a theory, but it does make some sense.

It is a tin foil hat theory that may not be so tin foil hatish.