Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

ADRM said:
Eglinton Crosstown
GO RER
DRL planning
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Yea, the Eglinton Crosstown which they delayed and canceled west of Mt Dennis

The DRL, which they've yet to commit a single dime to actually constructing, while they have no problem committing to various other projects that are objectively less critical.

The Sheppard East LRT, which they've twice delayed by a total of 11 years

The Finch West LRT, which they've at least twice delayed, while cancelling nearly half of that project.

They've been in power for more than a decade, and all they've got to show for it is Sobrara's Subway, and part of the Eglinton Crosstown they committed to build (and even that is being delivered late).

Let me know when the Liberals keep a transit commitment in Toronto without cancelations, decade long delays and other bull. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
 
ADRM said:
Eglinton Crosstown
GO RER
DRL planning
Click to expand...
And more. I'm no fan of Il Duce, and this statement is the product of embellishment, but none-the-less:
In a statement of his own, Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca responded, “No government in the history of this province has invested more in Toronto transit.”

He pointed to the $6.4 billion the province is spending to build the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRTs, as well as the $3.7 billion it’s investing to expand GO Transit service within the city. The GO expansion is crucial to Tory’s SmartTrack plan.

Del Duca didn’t rule out spending more money on new projects in the future, saying the province would “continue to work with the federal government . . . including collaboration on additional new projects.”

The minister made no commitment to match Ottawa’s 40-per-cent contribution, however, and a section of Thursday’s budget states that cost-sharing agreements with Ottawa should remain “flexible” to avoid “unexpected fiscal costs” for the provinces.
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https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...s-calls-to-match-federal-transit-funding.html

What's most telling is not what's being stated, but what isn't. I've been seeing the province saying "No" now for months, and it's not by mistake. There's a massive and welcome change coming in delivery of transit and the business and engineering model to do it. When Tory starts talking sense, perhaps he can be included in getting a turn at the wheel again. Meantime, he has to find a pedal-car of his own.
 
Kitsune said:
... the way that is written makes it sound like the feds have already agreed to fund 40% of the relief line short.
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Yeah...it's a good point. They haven't, although that will take some digging to get the quotes exact. I thought their funding pledge was contingent on the province matching funds, to a level of 40%. That needs to be clarified, as my understanding (open to correction) is that Toronto is now truly on its own....with a huge caveat! That the present *funding model* is to be re-examined. More on that later.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yea, the Eglinton Crosstown which they delayed and canceled west of Mt Dennis

The DRL, which they've yet to commit a single dime to actually constructing, while they have no problem committing to various other projects that are objectively less critical.

The Sheppard East LRT, which they've twice delayed by a total of 11 years

The Finch West LRT, which they've at least twice delayed, while cancelling nearly half of that project.

They've been in power for more than a decade, and all they've got to show for it is Sobrara's Subway, and part of the Eglinton Crosstown they committed to build (and even that is being delivered late).

Let me know when the Liberals keep a transit commitment in Toronto without cancelations, decade long delays and other bull. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
Click to expand...

No. You said "they've haven't committed a dime" to transit, which is untrue by a factor of literally billions of dollars. You sound like a Sun comments section contributor.

It's totally reasonable and understandable to question lots of the decision-making on transit in the province (from all levels of government), but it's just not helpful to spew things that are patently untrue.
 
ADRM said:
No. You said "they've haven't committed a dime" to transit, which is untrue by a factor of literally billions of dollars. You sound like a Sun comments section contributor.

It's totally reasonable and understandable to question lots of the decision-making on transit in the province (from all levels of government), but it's just not helpful to spew things that are patently untrue.
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I said they haven't committed a dime to new transit lines in Toronto. Don't quote me out of context

This means projects such as Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East, Crosstown East, Crosstown West, Yonge North, Spadina Extension, Waterfront Transit, etc...
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yea, the Eglinton Crosstown which they delayed and canceled west of Mt Dennis
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I think you'd better do some research on that one. You'd best ask "Why?"

And why it's going to be the template moving forward. It's far from perfect, it was arrived at by default, but remains an example *in some respects* of how to deliver on time and on budget.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I said they haven't committed a dime to new transit lines in Toronto. Don't quote me out of context

This means projects such as Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East, Crosstown East, Crosstown West, Yonge North, Spadina Extension, Waterfront Transit, etc...
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...you're again listing projects they've spent money on. And also omitting the DRL, but sure, enjoy fantasyland.
 
steveintoronto said:
I think you'd better do some research on that one. You'd best ask "Why?"

And why it's going to be the template moving forward. (It's far from perfect, it was arrived at by default, but remains an example *in some respects* of how to deliver on time and on budget.
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All that matters to me Liberals committed to building Crosstown West, and they completely failed to deliver.
 
ADRM said:
...you're again listing projects they've spent money on. And also omitting the DRL, but sure, enjoy fantasyland.
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All the projects I listed that they've spent money on building are from a nearly decade old funding commitment (which was my original point).

Where is the funding commitment to build Yonge North, DRL, Crosstown West and East, etc...
 
ADRM said:
I dunno, call me crazy, but put me firmly in the "we should plan large-scale projects before starting construction on them" camp.
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Yet the Liberals have had no problems committing funding to several projects that have yet to be fully studied, when it is politically convenient. How is it that various LRT and BRT projects outside Toronto get funding commitments with only preliminary studies done, while the same isn't afforded to projects such as Yonge North and DRL?
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
All the projects I listed that they've spent money on building are from a nearly decade old funding commitment (which was my original point).

Where is the funding commitment to build Yonge North, DRL, Crosstown West and East, etc...
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They have done more than talking about funding the DRL; they have spend more than $100M of your tax dollars on it. You can't just wish that away to prove your point.

It also makes no sense to completely discount a decision to not redirect, delay, or decrease funding from a previously committed project even if money has already been spent on it.

And you're also completely discounting billions of dollars of spending on GO RER -- why does it make any sense to be completely beholden to entirely new transit lines as the sole determinant of your griping about transit investment? The goal of transit investment should be to provide more and better transit for more people; in the case of the GTA, that requires a mix of added services, both new and existing.

Also, UP Express, while we're at it.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yet the Liberals have had no problems committing funding to several projects that have yet to be fully studied, when it is politically convenient. How is it that various LRT and BRT projects outside Toronto get funding commitments with only preliminary studies done, while the same isn't afforded to projects such as Yonge North and DRL?
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Like I said, I don't agree with everything the province has done on transit. And that shouldn't be shocking for a bevy of reasons. But it doesn't make some of your gross exaggeration and rigidity any more coherent or convincing.
 
ADRM said:
They have done more than talking about funding the DRL; they have spend more than $100M of your tax dollars on it. You can't just wish that away to prove your point.

It also makes no sense to completely discount a decision to not redirect, delay, or decrease funding from a previously committed project even if money has already been spent on it.

And you're also completely discounting billions of dollars of spending on GO RER -- why does it make any sense to be completely beholden to entirely new transit lines as the sole determinant of your griping about transit investment? The goal of transit investment should be to provide more and better transit for more people; in the case of the GTA, that requires a mix of added services, both new and existing.

Also, UP Express, while we're at it.
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UPX and RER, as planned, hardly serve residents and businesses within the City of Toronto, which is why I specified "in Toronto" in my original post. I know they've committed $150 Million for planning for the complete Relief Line. However, the Relief Line has already been planned to death already, is about the enter EA phase, has been recommended for contruction by TTC and Metrolinx, yet we've yet to see a commitment to built it. Yet Queen's Park has no qualms about committing to build other projects outside of Toronto, with competitively little study done. And then there's the half-dozen of so cancelations and delays of the implementation of the Transit City plan by QP. Surely you can understand why after a decade of this, my faith in their ability to implant their promises has been shaken
 
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