Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[MisterF]

For one, I think that you underestimate just how many people do in fact use GO to get to where they are going inside the City of Toronto. The failure of the repeated attempts of joint GO-TTC passes notwithstanding, the number is not inconsequential. The ridership of stations such as Danforth, Mimico and Eglinton bears that out.

Maybe, but I was just responding to TransitBart's comment about how GO is largely irrelevant to him as a Toronto resident. While I'm sure quite a few people do use GO within Toronto, TransitBart's situation is very common because of GO's limited service and Toronto's archaic fare system.

And as a second, and as a tie-in with the first, the bigger concern is where the stations are located and their accesses. The walkable catchment of many of the GO stations is not particularly good, meaning that people need to arrive at the station by some other mode. 2 different fares are thus required. Once most people put their fare into one vehicle, they aren't likely to be thinking of putting in a second fare, especially since that first vehicle will take them to a subway where they can transfer for free.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

But to go back to my last post, this is precisely the problem. It would be a non-issue in a city with a properly integrated transit system. Once GO trains are running more frequently we should be seeing TTC buses feed GO stations just like they feed subway stations. Transferring from a bus to the GO should be no different from transferring to the subway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

* Or how electrification would have been underway if Metrolinx put more money and time into it as opposed to new parking garages.

I see this argument presented time and time again and it always bugs me. "Apple should spend less time on watch bands and more on laptops", etc. Yes, because it's clearly the same people working on both things. The people doing architectural designs for parking garages aren't the same people doing substation designs for rail electrification. Cutting back on one would do no good for the other. In fact, most of those design jobs are contracted out to consultants, so it's not even Metrolinx staff working on them, so there are no resources to shift other than money. There's an old saying that I think is apt here: "Just because one woman can make a baby in 9 months doesn't mean 9 women can make a baby in one month."

Yes, adding resources may very well speed up the process slightly. Have you checked Metrolinx' job board lately? Every time I look there's at least 1 or 2 postings for RER-related work.

Marginally. Where it would help best would be expanding the contract for implementation (multiple lines being done simultaneously instead of in sequence). A two-fold increase in planning and design money isn't likely to result in a halving of that portion's timeline though.

I think it's legitamite. Even if RER wern't coming, the amount of time they've spent on parking garages as opposed to getting to all day service on the non Lakeshore lines is just bad. They can't get all day service on Milton (their own fault too), but they can built a parking garage at Erindale? 2024 to build the Bowmanville extension?


The question is, is GO trying to be a commuter service or all day regional rail.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

But to go back to my last post, this is precisely the problem. It would be a non-issue in a city with a properly integrated transit system. Once GO trains are running more frequently we should be seeing TTC buses feed GO stations just like they feed subway stations. Transferring from a bus to the GO should be no different from transferring to the subway.

I think the question needs to be asked do either TTC or Go want to provide service to the other. Remember they are both separate companies going after different groups of poel. Not everyone that gets on the subway at main street station is heading to union station or downtown they could be heading somewhere in between and on't want to pay an extra fare to take a second form of transit if they don't have to. Alos just because the public want them to integrate fares doesn't meant that they want to intagtrethem.

 

[MisterF]

I think the whole goal of Metrolinx and similar agencies in other cities is to deal with these type of issues. One extreme is to have each city running it's own system which leads to decent service within the municipality but, poor interregional service. The other extreme is Translink which has created some very good bus services in Metro Vancouver however most routes outside of Vancouver proper suffer from poor frequency and milk run routing because funds are spent primarily on urban routes or commuter services.

In my eyes transit in the Gtha is in a perfect in between where we have municipal transit agencies who primarily service their respective cities needs and GO which will increasingly act as the interregional service tying all the cities together. The way local and interregional transit is independently administered will be a big benefit in the future as the focus will always be demand based, rather than coverage based.

Okay, I think it's time for a good rant.

For such a supposedly flawed system, Translink has managed to build the longest metro in Canada in barely 30 years. In the same timeframe Toronto essentially stopped expanding and now has a shorter metro than both Vancouver and Montreal, which are both significantly smaller cities. Toronto's central core hasn't seen any rapid transit expansion since the 1960s despite the fact that the population has exploded. What expansion we do get is politically motivated, unnecessarily expensive, and doesn't serve the areas with the most demand. Meanwhile it's impossible to travel around the GTA with any kind of speed or reliability. In what world is this system perfect? It's utterly broken.

I'd take a Translink style governance structure over the mess that we're dealing with any day. But it's not a binary choice between our system and theirs. There are cities all over the world with better transit structures that we could learn from. Cities that build where the demand is. Cities that take advantage of rail corridors to build transit that's useful for the communities they pass through. Cities that don't have a patchwork of agencies that compete and squabble with each other.

 

[TransitBart]

While the Skytrain has seen rapid growth the system is on a completely different scale that the subway in Toronto, Surrey one of Canada's fastest growing cities has virtually 0 rapid transit despite the fact that it is expected to overtake Vancouver in terms of population in the not so distant future. The discrepancy between service provided in Surrey and Vancouver is truly incredible.

That would make it the Scarborough of Vancouver. Virtually zero rapid transit.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

While the Skytrain has seen rapid growth the system is on a completely different scale that the subway in Toronto, Surrey one of Canada's fastest growing cities has virtually 0 rapid transit despite the fact that it is expected to overtake Vancouver in terms of population in the not so distant future. The discrepancy between service provided in Surrey and Vancouver is truly incredible.

So when that happens, does Greater Vancouver Region get renamed Greater Surrey Region? Can we erase Vancouver from our national maps and replace it with Surrey? I should probably start reading up on Vancouver's new Surrey overlords.

 

[MisterF]

While the Skytrain has seen rapid growth the system is on a completely different scale that the subway in Toronto, Surrey one of Canada's fastest growing cities has virtually 0 rapid transit despite the fact that it is expected to overtake Vancouver in terms of population in the not so distant future. The discrepancy between service provided in Surrey and Vancouver is truly incredible.

Excuses. The fact remains that Vancouver has done a far better job of building transit in the last 30 years than Toronto has, especially considering the size of the two. The fact that a metro area a third the size of Toronto has a longer metro system is inexcusable.

Are the suburbs really doing better in Toronto than Vancouver? Surrey isn't unique at all, it's basically Vancouver's Mississauga. Mississauga has roughly the same population as the pre-amalgamation city of Toronto, maybe more (which just goes to show that municipal boundaries are pretty much meaningless in these discussions, but I'll humour you). While Surrey has a small amount of Skytrain, Mississauga has zero rapid transit. Yes, the Hurontario LRT will be an improvement and RER will improve mobility significantly, but neither of those is a metro system. So that's Surrey 1, Mississauga 0.

Of course there's a discrepancy between Vancouver and Surrey, or Toronto and Mississauga for that matter. They're suburbs. Nobody expects them to have the same transit as their core cities.

 

[crs1026]

To bring it back to DRL what is the current state of planning?

You ought to do some basic research. Instead of asking people open-ended to recite the status of every issue, why not read up and then you can ask focussed questions to fill in what you don't know.

How far back in this thread did you read before asking this question?

The minutes of City Council meetings have lots of support documents as well as the direction given by Council and the timeline they asked for.
You might also look for the Provincial announcement of funding for preparatory studies and design.
TTC and Metrolinx Board meeting agendas and minutes are also available and give their perspectives.
Not to mention googling for media reporting.

All available on line.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

To bring it back to DRL what is the current state of planning?

-The Queen and Pape via Unilever alignment was approved by Council for the Relief Line Short

-Council has appproved the northern and western extensions as part of Toronto's network plan.

-$150 Million in funding has been provided to get the Relief Line, from Dundas West Station to Shepads/Don Mills, shovel ready.

-The TPAP for the Relief Line Short should be completed this year.

Major milestones to look forward to this year:

- Look for Relief Line Short funding to materialize this year.

- The Relief Line Long (extension to Sheppard) should begin planning and engineering.

 

[Kitsune]

I thought the alignment via Pape was not approved - and a report was going to council studying it going down Carlaw instead and then after that point they will start the TPAP ?

 

[44 North]

- Look for Relief Line Short funding to materialize this year.

That'd be a dream.

And I didn't see it posted here but there was a meeting back in Nov re: the proposed Pape->Carlaw jog, with some basic materials. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a similar hyper-focused discussion regarding the portion around Richmond/Parliament where the line passes from Eastern to Queen.

http://reliefline.ca/the-project/project-materials/local-segment-reset-stakeholder-advisory-group-
http://reliefline.ca/uploads/LSSAG mtg 1_Slides_Final.pdf

 

[TransitBart]

-The TPAP for the Relief Line Short should be completed this year.

Is this TPAP underway?

 

[Hopkins123]

That'd be a dream.

And I didn't see it posted here but there was a meeting back in Nov re: the proposed Pape->Carlaw jog, with some basic materials. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a similar hyper-focused discussion regarding the portion around Richmond/Parliament where the line passes from Eastern to Queen.

View attachment 95400
http://reliefline.ca/the-project/project-materials/local-segment-reset-stakeholder-advisory-group-
http://reliefline.ca/uploads/LSSAG mtg 1_Slides_Final.pdf

I definitely prefer the Carlaw alignment. Carlaw is already zoned for development whereas Pape is a stable SFD residential street south of Danforth. The Gerrard station on the Carlaw alignment also better integrates with the GO station planned there.

And by your talk of Richmond/Parliament, can we assume the Sherbourne vs. Jarvis and Parliament as station stops debate may come to dominance this year as well? One can only hope.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is this TPAP underway?

Not yet. It will start in a few months. Should take about 6 months to complete.

 

[Kitsune]

That'd be a dream.

And I didn't see it posted here but there was a meeting back in Nov re: the proposed Pape->Carlaw jog, with some basic materials. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a similar hyper-focused discussion regarding the portion around Richmond/Parliament where the line passes from Eastern to Queen.

http://reliefline.ca/the-project/project-materials/local-segment-reset-stakeholder-advisory-group-
http://reliefline.ca/uploads/LSSAG mtg 1_Slides_Final.pdf

almost 20 meters to the platform... wow that is going to be fun going down and up.