Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[DonValleyRainbow]

I like that your Phase I goes further north than Danforth and further west than University.

I wonder whether the insertion/extraction points will be what determines the actual end points. As a matter of pragmatics, taking the north end all the way to the Don Valley would put the shaft somewhere that doesn't involve expropriation. Similarly, putting the shaft at Trinity Bellwoods Park would avoid a potentially costly expropriation along Queen.

We will kiss the 501 streetcar good bye (for a few years, anyways) once construction begins in earnest.....better be sure that King is a transit-priority by then, all the way from Dufferin to River.

- Paul

This. This is what I was getting at in this post. For the segment west of University, I was thinking of CAMH instead, the land parcel between Lower Ossington and Workman Way has less vegetation. Won't get the local hipster population as upset.

As for the 501, I'd point out that it would still need to exist west of Dufferin until the Relief Line reaches Roncy, and the Waterfront West LRT connection is made. East of Sumach, the 504 could just be extended as a new branch.

 

[Hopkins123]

This. This is what I was getting at in this post. For the segment west of University, I was thinking of CAMH instead, the land parcel between Lower Ossington and Workman Way has less vegetation. Won't get the local hipster population as upset.

As for the 501, I'd point out that it would still need to exist west of Dufferin until the Relief Line reaches Roncy, and the Waterfront West LRT connection is made. East of Sumach, the 504 could just be extended as a new branch.

It would probably make the most sense to take the 504 King off of Broadview entirely and have it through-routed east across Queen East to Neville Park Loop - so one straight streetcar line from Roncesvalles to Victoria Park, interfacing with the DRL at new Roncy/Queen, Sumach/King, and Carlaw/Queen Stations.

505 Dundas alone could continue serving Broadview north to the Danforth.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This. This is what I was getting at in this post. For the segment west of University, I was thinking of CAMH instead, the land parcel between Lower Ossington and Workman Way has less vegetation. Won't get the local hipster population as upset.

As for the 501, I'd point out that it would still need to exist west of Dufferin until the Relief Line reaches Roncy, and the Waterfront West LRT connection is made. East of Sumach, the 504 could just be extended as a new branch.

that parcel will be gone in the spring when CAMH starts construction on its next phase of the revitalization. The parcel between Gordon Bell and White Squirrel will be taken too.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

that parcel will be gone in the spring when CAMH starts construction on its next phase of the revitalization. The parcel between Gordon Bell and White Squirrel will be taken too.

Damn! Well, how about the gas station at Queen and Walnut? I refuse to accept that Trin-Bellwoods is an acceptable extraction shaft. Also, there's too much built heritage everywhere else.

Either that or we push all the way to the Freshco parking lot north of Bloor...

 

[44 North]

Maybe take it to Dufferin and we can extract along gts corridor /Sudbury St. We don't want to build the stations b/n Spadina and Dufferin right yet, so be it. But at least we'd have a tunnel and storage tracks in place. In the east naturally extract just east of Beechwood with staging areas around the police dog facility.

Why can't Toronto have nice things:

I think this would make for an awesome Phase One. Assuming $400 million/km we'd be looking at roughly $4-$5 billion depending on the technicalities involved such as crossing the Don and 3 subway crossings. Thoughts?

I'd like to see this, but have a hard time believing we'd get a station at both Mortimer and Cosburn. Think a single station between Danforth and the valley is the best case scenario.

 

[crs1026]

I am fearful that the die is cast for some of the preservable buildings along Queen West. Some developer could offer to house the extraction shaft on some tract in exchange for permision to demolish the current structures, and then ridiculously favourable variances afterwards when the site becomes available for development. Some of that demolition may already be in the works, heritage or not.

I wonder if the heritage study for Queen West has the extraction shaft on their radar screen.

If I had a choice between putting the 501 on King from Dufferin to River, with a transit mall and transit priority, or keeping a version of the current circuitous detour along Shaw and Spadina, I would throw in the towel and let buses handle all of Queen West until this thing is done. I'm not sure we need all those turning streetcars on Spadina or Bathurst. But perhaps restoring the tracks on Richmond and Adelaide would let us detour and put the extraction shaft right in the middle of Queen somewhere. Blocking Queen and putting a transit mall on King may not be doable. (Haven't heard anything on the latter for a while now).

- Paul

 

[Forgotten]

Why can't Toronto have nice things:



I think this would make for an awesome Phase One. Assuming $400 million/km we'd be looking at roughly $4-$5 billion depending on the technicalities involved such as crossing the Don and 3 subway crossings. Thoughts?

That is a sobering picture. Queen @ each of those stop locations with perhaps the exception of Spadina has less business activity, pedestrian activity, and transit usage compared to King Street and even the exception will be changing once all of the buildings finish construction from King and south. At least Tory and his puppets capture the "equity seeking individual" market.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It would probably make the most sense to take the 504 King off of Broadview entirely and have it through-routed east across Queen East to Neville Park Loop - so one straight streetcar line from Roncesvalles to Victoria Park, interfacing with the DRL at new Roncy/Queen, Sumach/King, and Carlaw/Queen Stations.

505 Dundas alone could continue serving Broadview north to the Danforth.

You're forgetting about the streetcars needed for the Port Lands. Broadview would continue to use streetcars and be extended southwards into to Port Lands. Along with the Cherry Street extension south into the Port Lands.

 

[Rainforest]

Why can't Toronto have nice things:



I think this would make for an awesome Phase One. Assuming $400 million/km we'd be looking at roughly $4-$5 billion depending on the technicalities involved such as crossing the Don and 3 subway crossings. Thoughts?

Good plan. The only question is how buses 25 Don Mills, 100 Flemmington and other buses coming from the north will connect to the subway. Either the need to loop somehow at the Cosburn station, or they will have to run all the way to Danforth and duplicate the subway until it gets extended to Eglinton.

 

[WislaHD]

Why can't Toronto have nice things:



I think this would make for an awesome Phase One. Assuming $400 million/km we'd be looking at roughly $4-$5 billion depending on the technicalities involved such as crossing the Don and 3 subway crossings. Thoughts?

This one is a beautiful map. All the stations are exactly where they should be.

Jarvis/Parliament as opposed to just Sherborne. Two interchanges at Yonge and University. Sumach station well positioned to serve many different side streets. Broadview Station granting direct transit access to Unilever site. Gamble(Cosburn) and Mortimer stations with good stop distance from each other. Phase 1 extension to Spadina in the west, and to Cosburn in the north, will mean little disruption to the interchange stations once we extend north and west in Phase 2 and 3.

I couldn't have drawn it better myself.

That is a sobering picture. Queen @ each of those stop locations with perhaps the exception of Spadina has less business activity, pedestrian activity, and transit usage compared to King Street and even the exception will be changing once all of the buildings finish construction from King and south. At least Tory and his puppets capture the "equity seeking individual" market.

This is beating a dead horse. Queen is not as busy as King, but it is 90% as busy as King. It is not a 'loss' having a Queen alignment.

If anything, we gain better access to institutions (Ryerson, City Hall) and the Eaton Centre, better pedestrian flow above ground and in the PATH at peak hours, and cheaper tunelling compared to King. Queen Street also makes a lot more sense west of Spadina, if we intend to send the subway to Roncy.

Good plan. The only question is how buses 25 Don Mills, 100 Flemmington and other buses coming from the north will connect to the subway. Either the need to loop somehow at the Cosburn station, or they will have to run all the way to Danforth and duplicate the subway until it gets extended to Eglinton.

It begs extending phase 1 all the way to Eglinton, doesn't it?

The answer is I think more straightforward than you think. Have the 100 Flemingdon and 25 Don Mills head to Broadview Station as opposed to Pape.

 

[Fred.S]

Why can't Toronto have nice things:

I think this would make for an awesome Phase One. Assuming $400 million/km we'd be looking at roughly $4-$5 billion depending on the technicalities involved such as crossing the Don and 3 subway crossings. Thoughts?

Thanks for the interesting map, my thoughts...

1. I agree with WislaHD in that if we're going to extend the line north of Danforth, then it should go all the way to Eglinton. If not, then, leave that stretch for Phase 2. I don't think it's a good use of money to leave a line not ending at another major transit line or trip generator.

2. I like that the line moves over to Carlaw. I think keeping it on Pape was a big mistake in the city's original proposal (not sure if they changed it since then). However, the curve from Pape to Carlaw may be better more north at Gerard, almost under the GO tracks. This would probably be less disruptive to build, and it may be easier having the station box not so close to residences, as well as interfacing better with a potential new GO station.

3. I've always been torn whether the line should stay under Queen west of Yonge, or if it should veer south to serve closer to CityPlace and eventually Liberty Village, though GO transit fare integration and the Waterfront West LRT may take care of that eventually. However, if staying on the Queen alignment, then I think extending one stop west to Bathurst would be a better terminal, as it's a major streetcar line, and serves south to the Ex, and all the development at Fort York and CityPlace.

 

[Hopkins123]

Maybe take it to Dufferin and we can extract along gts corridor /Sudbury St. We don't want to build the stations b/n Spadina and Dufferin right yet, so be it. But at least we'd have a tunnel and storage tracks in place. In the east naturally extract just east of Beechwood with staging areas around the police dog facility.

I'd like to see this, but have a hard time believing we'd get a station at both Mortimer and Cosburn. Think a single station between Danforth and the valley is the best case scenario.

The Don Mills LRT proposal per the original Transit City plans had underground stations occurring at all three of O'Connor, Cosburn and Mortimer. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Mills_LRT

It's not unreasonable to expect a station at Mortimer at all. It would be in-keeping with the average stop spacing that occurs through central Bloor-Danforth and downtown YUS.

As for DRL West, yes, take it all the way to Roncesvalles.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Don Mills LRT proposal per the original Transit City plans had underground stations occurring at all three of O'Connor, Cosburn and Mortimer. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Mills_LRT

It's not unreasonable to expect a station at Mortimer at all. It would be in-keeping with the average stop spacing that occurs through central Bloor-Danforth and downtown YUS.

As for DRL West, yes, take it all the way to Roncesvalles.

Since the DRL would likely be heavy rail as opposed to the Don Mills LRT, it would be likely that O'Connor and Cosburn would be merged into one. They question would be where would the station box be?

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

You're forgetting about the streetcars needed for the Port Lands. Broadview would continue to use streetcars and be extended southwards into to Port Lands. Along with the Cherry Street extension south into the Port Lands.

This is true, I just assumed the Broadview extension and adequate demand for service would take much longer than building the relief line. Thinking about it now though, that may be a bad assumption.

As for Cherry, I guess this would be handled by the existing 514?

The Don Mills LRT proposal per the original Transit City plans had underground stations occurring at all three of O'Connor, Cosburn and Mortimer. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Mills_LRT

I don't see that in the wiki article. It does point to old Transit City documents though, but looking at those, I still don't see it; looks all surface to me.

 

[Palma]

are people on here not tired of debating the same thing over and over?